Modern day "motorcycle of the air" aircraft class?

Discussion in 'Aircraft Design / Aerodynamics / New Technology' started by cluttonfred, Oct 3, 2015.

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  1. Aug 27, 2018 #1961

    erkki67

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    My favorit remain the parasol, with the fuselage of the Piojo.
     
  2. Sep 9, 2018 #1962

    Bill-Higdon

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    I found a model plane of the Farnham Fly Cycle an interesting variation, the plan doesn't mention it being a scale model. But I'm thinking it's probably close https://aerofred.com/details.php?image_id=81242 . Aerofiles shows "Farnham Lawrence Farnham, Fort Collins CO. FC-1 Fly-Cycle 1954 = 1pOlwM; 75hp Continental A-75; span: 29'7" length: 19'0" v: 85/x/30 range: 150. A genuine flying motorbike; the pilot had no cockpit, but rode the plane sitting astride the fuselage with his feet resting on the wings. Control was by means of handlebars and a twist-grip trottle in the right grip. As a "working" plane, containers for crop-spraying could be carried in its wings. [N201A]." So it looks like it flew at Fort Collins, CO which implies it isn't as badly restricted by Density Altitude. The only pictures I can find a reference to are in a couple of Old Sport Aviations the first being May 1954 page 5, and March 1956. Anyone got copies of these old Sport Aviations they can scan & post ?
     
  3. Sep 9, 2018 #1963

    FritzW

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    They should be on the EAA website. I'll see if I can remember my password and download the PDF's.
     
  4. Sep 9, 2018 #1964

    FritzW

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    Last edited: Sep 9, 2018
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  5. Sep 10, 2018 #1965

    WBNH

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    Hmmm...that link made me curious about the other plane in the link...but a search for "Schreder Air Mate" only comes up with gliders. Maybe that name was a typo too? It's a new one on me, and I spend a lot of time researching obscure aircraft. Reminiscent of the Lockheed Little Dipper, perhaps simpler. But that's another thread.


    EDIT: apparently the Smithsonian has a bunch of Richard Scheder's papers and plans. It references
    "[FONT=&quot]He designed an all-metal low-wing single-seater called the Airmate 5, which won the Experimental Aircraft Association's (EAA) best workmanship award in 1954."[/FONT][FONT=&quot] He subsequently turned his attention to gliders. [/FONT] Smithsonian Link
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2018
  6. Sep 10, 2018 #1966

    stuart fields

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    I have always found when an item is designed to do two different purposes, like a motorcycle airplane, you end with a Schitty motorcycle and a Schitty airplane and a lot of time an money spent. Fun??
     
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  7. Sep 10, 2018 #1967

    Victor Bravo

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    Fun? ... why yes ! You get TWO "biggest bang for the buck" advantages, so you can describe this situation as "Schitty Schitty Bang Bang". (With apologies to Dick Van Dyke)
     
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  8. Sep 11, 2018 #1968

    stuart fields

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    I think that you may owe this group an apology also...Geesh!!
     
  9. Sep 11, 2018 #1969

    Tiger Tim

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    15F6E34C-BEA1-4E5E-BD43-06567F600368.jpg
    I continue to see this “motorcycle of the air” concept as not necessarily requiring handlebars or tandem wheels but really just as an impractical single seat cheap runabout that exists only for fun.

    Having said that, hold on to your hat Matt for the Kirk Pee-Wee. Far as I know it was never built but the concept was in the Feb 1959 Sport Aviation and it outlines exactly what I think this thread is about.
     
  10. Sep 11, 2018 #1970

    cluttonfred

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    Great stuff, Tim. I really need to spend some time going through the Sport Aviation archives from that period, there really are many hidden treasures. Here is the original article with Kirk's thoughts. It looks like Kirk had a regular column...hmmm.... ;-)

    I agree that handlebars and tandem wheels are not essential to the concept, and that Kirk Pee-Wee could easily be a little more "Airbike" in it's fuselage style. As a matter of fact, the fuselage design is very interesting in that it appears to be a single girder with the rest of the fuselage just stringers on light bulkheads for shape.

    Tim, since the drawing is split in the EAA .pdf and the image quality on HBA is too low to zoom in, would you mind posting a photo of just the fuselage part of the drawing?

    pee wee fuselage zoom.jpg

    The wing strut arrangement is also interesting, a bit like a Sperry Messenger but simpler. Looks like a lot of fun to me!

    PS--A quick search of the EAA Sport Aviation online archive shows that Joe Kirk published *25* articles 1959-1969, many of them in his "Design Studies" series. I feel a little research project coming on....
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Sep 11, 2018
  11. Sep 11, 2018 #1971

    ScaleBirdsScott

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    That Pee-Wee is very neat, but has anyone ever flown one? The elevator looks like it's a bit low to the ground for one thing. Otherwise, quite interesting.
     
  12. Sep 11, 2018 #1972

    cluttonfred

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    The size, shape, and position of the horizontal stabilizer and elevator don't look ideal to me, either. I don't know if the plane was ever built or even if the design went beyond the drawing above. Did anyone else notice that detail on the wing in the top view that seems to indicate geodetic construction?
     
  13. Sep 11, 2018 #1973

    FritzW

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    I'm a big fan of geodetic, that was one of the first things I noticed. I'm also a big fan of single keel(ish) design but I completely missed it. I sure like the way this Kirk fellow thinks, I wonder if he's related to James T.

    I'm guessing the "A" frame looking thing at the front of the fuselage goes between the pilots legs and there are just some more fairings and stringers that make a fairing around him?

    Tim, where did you find the large drawing?
     
  14. Sep 11, 2018 #1974

    ScaleBirdsScott

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    I think combining the overall size and concept of the Pee-Wee with the shapes and general proportions of the also-mentioned Sperry Messenger (one of my favorites) should yield something that's predictable and proven as far as the interplay of surfaces, could work with commonly available 30-50hp engines (perfect for the Verner 3V for that Messenger look!) and that would make for quite a machine. Whether it's a MOTA or not, almost besides the point really.
     
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  15. Sep 11, 2018 #1975

    Tiger Tim

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    It’s just an 11x17” copy of the Sport Aviation article. I was cleaning out some old files and it was among them. It looks like it would make a neat project, especially if it builds as fast as the designer thinks it would.
     
  16. Sep 11, 2018 #1976

    billyvray

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    Another Joe Kirk design was this gyro. Neat simple construction. Maybe toss the rotor and add some wings...and of course make it a taildragger.

    View attachment gyro flit.pdf
     
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  17. Sep 11, 2018 #1977

    FritzW

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    I think I'm getting a little infatuated with Kirk's 'mono-keel' idea. Maybe not the exact same shape but the same basic idea.


    "ah geez, here we go with the eye candy again..." :tired:

    Kirk Pee Wee EC1.jpg Kirk Pee Wee EC2.jpg Kirk Pee Wee EC3.jpg

    Kirk Pee Wee EC4.jpg Kirk Pee Wee EC5.jpg

    (these aren't very accurate but the drawings weren't very complete)
     
  18. Sep 11, 2018 #1978

    Tiger Tim

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    Stop that, I’m trying hard here not to build one.
     
  19. Sep 11, 2018 #1979

    cluttonfred

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    Sigh, Fritz, I am so jealous of how quickly you can produce these virtual models! There are some design elements in the Pee Wee that I would quibble with (placement and design of horizontal tail surfaces, that backrest looks flimsy) and some stylistic choices I would do differently (cowling is a bit ugly, steel cabanes would look better, I dislike the upswept turtledeck) but overall it’s a very appealing concept.

     
  20. Sep 12, 2018 #1980

    addicted2climbing

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