Modern day "motorcycle of the air" aircraft class?

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bmcj

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I'm with CluttonFred, when I think of an aerial "motorcycle" I think of the rider straddling the fuselage upright, centermass. Most of these other suggestions don't evoke the motorcycle vibe, but the dePischof does.
 

cluttonfred

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neat, spduffee, thanks. autoreply, if it's still unclear, please see posts nos. 1, 8, 31 and 41 in this thread.

If we did go with pure motorcycle seating (upright touring bike position, not hunched over racing bike position), I would not be inclined to go with motorcycle-type handlebars in lieu of a joystick as it seems like an unnecessary deviation and just something more for the pilot to learn. A compromise might be an Embraer-style inverted control yoke with a motorcycle-style throttle (with a cruising lock), a new twist to the fighter concept of hands-on-throttle-and-stick (HOTAS).

yoke1.jpg
 

DangerZone

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Hi,
All this talk about a modern motorcycle of the air - what's wrong with this?
View attachment 43739

or this close-up of the seating position...
View attachment 43740

It seems to have everything. Sporty good looks, bike-like seating. And it looks like a lot of fun.
...
$10,895
Indeed, it is a nice AirBike and the price is certainly reasonable.

But the Aeroprakt A20 which AR posted has an engine in the back meaning better frontal view, less noise in the face and possibly better aerodynamics/efficiency. The Aeroprakt is also a tricycle gear as opposed to a taildragger meaning easier take off and landing in rough terrain. The engine in the back also allows more power to be installed and with the availability of good engines today it might not hurt to have more power for better climb and take off.

View attachment 43750

One of my favorites from S2KA. If you kneaded it, it could be made to fly...
Get the wing above the prop thrustline over her head and make the nose smaller but canopy larger and she will have much better view both front and down. Move her in front of the wing because the CG in the picture would be too far aft and add a glider like canopy. And we have a winner. :D

neat, spduffee, thanks. autoreply, if it's still unclear, please see posts nos. 1, 8, 31 and 41 in this thread.

If we did go with pure motorcycle seating (upright touring bike position, not hunched over racing bike position), I would not be inclined to go with motorcycle-type handlebars in lieu of a joystick as it seems like an unnecessary deviation and just something more for the pilot to learn. A compromise might be an Embraer-style inverted control yoke with a motorcycle-style throttle (with a cruising lock), a new twist to the fighter concept of hands-on-throttle-and-stick (HOTAS).
I've seen a pretty intuitive homebuilt trike with the front motorcycle fork having standard handlebars and then had a 'joystick' kind of stick on each hand for pitch and roll, both in sync. Prettygood thinking and engineering, the engine was a Yamaha, Suzuki or Kawasaki conversion, can't remember but itwas definitely Japanese. This allowd the guy to fly the airtrike without use of legs, cause he was disabled from the waist down. Excellent handling, he could take off in about 25m and land in 50m.
 

DangerZone

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-R1bYpcJzI

-interesting handelbar...iff connecting with wheel=no foot control!
Yes, yet this is a hang glider. It has no pitch control but relies on bodyweight shifting. The mentioned aircraft had control sticks on the handlebars, a vertical (elevator) and horizontal stabilizer (rudder). The rudder was actually controlled by the handlebars while sticks controlled pitch and roll. The wing had some kind of ailerons. I have no idea what it was, most probably a unique homebuilt adapted for the guy's needs.
 

Starjumper7

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I'm with CluttonFred, when I think of an aerial "motorcycle" I think of the rider straddling the fuselage upright, centermass. Most of these other suggestions don't evoke the motorcycle vibe, but the dePischof does.
I'm glad you said that !! Front engine can be good !! There's a problem with the DePissoff design for me and that is unacceptable visibility downwards in front, fine for RC but not real life. If we think about it for a microsecond or two we realize that to get the real feel the rider must be sitting ON the wing out in the open, just like the fictional Banshee riders.

Therefore this cartoon depicts the only acceptable solution that is efficient, light, and nice looking. I envision this with two vertical tails to get them in clean air, and the horizontal tail is large and close in in order to shorten the overall length.With retractable taildragger gear and rear skids. It even looks like a motorcycle. This is Hot !! I'm taking this thing to market !! Last one's a rotten egg !!

Picture it with an eye painted on each side of the fairing.
 

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cluttonfred

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I'm glad you said that !! Front engine can be good !! There's a problem with the DePissoff design for me and that is unacceptable visibility downwards in front, fine for RC but not real life. If we think about it for a microsecond or two we realize that to get the real feel the rider must be sitting ON the wing out in the open, just like the fictional Banshee riders.

Therefore this cartoon depicts the only acceptable solution that is efficient, light, and nice looking. I envision this with two vertical tails to get them in clean air, and the horizontal tail is large and close in in order to shorten the overall length.With retractable taildragger gear and rear skids. It even looks like a motorcycle. This is Hot !! I'm taking this thing to market !! Last one's a rotten egg !!

Picture it with an eye painted on each side of the fairing.
I love it! How about steerable bicycle gear and outrigger wheels? I would also suggest a backrest like a cruising motorcycle continuing into a rear fairing to smooth the air over the tail and some sort of windscreen and rollover protection. For my competing design, I'll go with an arrangement more like that recumbent motorcycle I posted but with tandem wings. Kind of like riding on top of a Rutan Quickie!

It's easy to see how this could be a lot of fun and spawn a lot of interesting designs if the basic parameters established the motorcycle character, an affordable baseline power plant and some dimensional limits. Who needs races, you could have "aircycle" clubs with matching jackets to descend as a gang on the local pancake breakfast fly-in!

Seeing your design does reinforce for me the need for span and length limits. Give it a long tail boom and glider wings and it would lose some of its racy charm.
 

Starjumper7

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I love it! How about steerable bicycle gear and outrigger wheels? I would also suggest a backrest like a cruising motorcycle continuing into a rear fairing to smooth the air over the tail and some sort of windscreen and rollover protection.
Anyone can add anything to it they want, that.s just the basic layout, and whatever you add will create a huge visual sacrifice except for what I would add, a motorcycle style leg fairing which extends back into a fence over the wing to keep the outer parts of the wing undisturbed by the pilots legs and body ... and possibly a motorcycle style windshield depending on expected trip length. I aint no friggin sissy myself though, and i've freeway cruised motorcycles at a steady 90 mph without a fairing or windshield and lived. Amazing,huh?

For my competing design, I'll go with an arrangement more like that recumbent motorcycle I posted but with tandem wings. Kind of like riding on top of a Rutan Quickie!
That style had occurred to me, and it's best if you want that sitting position and a front engine. Also that type makes the most efficient use of wing area. The more % loaded the front wing is the better, and a 'quickie' with 90% weight on the front wing would have the smallest wing area of any type needed to meet your minimum speed need.

It's easy to see how this could be a lot of fun and spawn a lot of interesting designs if the basic parameters established the motorcycle character, an affordable baseline power plant and some dimensional limits. Who needs races, you could have "aircycle" clubs with matching jackets to descend as a gang on the local pancake breakfast fly-in!

Seeing your design does reinforce for me the need for span and length limits. Give it a long tail boom and glider wings and it would lose some of its racy charm.
Definitely, in addition to costing a lot less it needs to be compact and quick handling like a sporty motorcycle type. Working through these concepts makes it apparent that you can make any configuration into a 'motorcycle' simply by taking the sides /doors/roof off, depending on what kind of look and feeling you want, but nothing will beat that red one of mine there for looking good and sharp, like a real motorcycle. Because I am zee artiste.
 
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bmcj

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I'm glad you said that !! Front engine can be good !! There's a problem with the DePissoff design for me and that is unacceptable visibility downwards in front, fine for RC but not real life. If we think about it for a microsecond or two we realize that to get the real feel the rider must be sitting ON the wing out in the open, just like the fictional Banshee riders.

Therefore this cartoon depicts the only acceptable solution that is efficient, light, and nice looking. I envision this with two vertical tails to get them in clean air, and the horizontal tail is large and close in in order to shorten the overall length.With retractable taildragger gear and rear skids. It even looks like a motorcycle. This is Hot !! I'm taking this thing to market !! Last one's a rotten egg !!

Picture it with an eye painted on each side of the fairing.
I like it! Very similar to the ZJ Viera, but tweaked enough to give it more of a motorcycle aspect.

zj-viera.jpg

BTW... Just because we are after the motorcycle mystique, I think we can still go for conventional controls. If you want it to look like handlebars, add a fairing and put a throttle on the left side and short-grip stick on the right.
 

DangerZone

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I'm glad you said that !! Front engine can be good !! There's a problem with the DePissoff design for me and that is unacceptable visibility downwards in front, fine for RC but not real life. If we think about it for a microsecond or two we realize that to get the real feel the rider must be sitting ON the wing out in the open, just like the fictional Banshee riders.

Therefore this cartoon depicts the only acceptable solution that is efficient, light, and nice looking. I envision this with two vertical tails to get them in clean air, and the horizontal tail is large and close in in order to shorten the overall length.With retractable taildragger gear and rear skids. It even looks like a motorcycle. This is Hot !! I'm taking this thing to market !! Last one's a rotten egg !!

Picture it with an eye painted on each side of the fairing.
Nice. :)

There was a similar aircraft with a bike engine up front in an aviation magazine and the only difference was that the pilot was in a more sportbike position. Te wingspar was under his chest and armpits. The color was blue, it was a bit smaller than the HummelBird. Does anyone remember what was that one called?
 

cluttonfred

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Neat stuff guys. What is the month and year of that Popular Science issue? It may be available to read on Google Books.
 
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