Modern 2 seater???

Discussion in 'Wood Construction' started by erkki67, Mar 18, 2012.

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  1. Mar 18, 2012 #1

    erkki67

    erkki67

    erkki67

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    I'm wondering if out there exist a wooden-bird that has the qualities of flight of a Jodel D11, especially the slow flight abilities?

    An all flying rudder and a monobloc elevator would be great as a retrangular, unstrutted lo-wing and the possibility to have it as a taildragger or tricycle.

    And it should be powered by an aerovee or smart or TU3D or equivalent engine.

    I don't mind if it would be canadian, russian, american, south american european, african, ausralian or asian design

    bst rgds

    Erkki
     
  2. Mar 18, 2012 #2

    topspeed100

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  3. Mar 18, 2012 #3

    TFF

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    The real answer is no. Too much of a throw back in materials. No one wants to go to wood as a primary material when most of the world wants composite. You have also restricted you design criteria heavily. The watercooled engines after conversion will be picking up weight with drive gearbox or halving the horsepower if direct drive. Aerovee and a KR2 will be the closest as you know. No one wants to put the effort in a design that will be a strut less VP2. Now if I wanted an all wood plane with an Aerovee it would be a Fisher something. If I wanted a wood plane it would be an Emeraude.
     
  4. Mar 18, 2012 #4

    erkki67

    erkki67

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    The Jodel is a nice bird for sure, but it's wing construction is quiet complicated.

    The rest of the bird could be overtaken.

    TFF, I can understand your point of view, but I can't stand composits anymore as they ruined my health, so I rather stay with the less nossif wood.

    Erkki
     
  5. Mar 18, 2012 #5

    TFF

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    I love wood airplanes. Reality is, no one ,who designs now, cares. The plus side is there are some good old ones. I think it is better to have a lesser airplane than never finding the perfect airplane.
     
  6. Mar 18, 2012 #6

    rheuschele

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  7. Mar 19, 2012 #7

    millerdvr

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    Have you considered the Fisher aircraft? They are very modern, all wood and can accommodate your engine choices. They aren't low wing though, at least the two place aren't. The plans are all full size, wing ribs, fuselage tail group etc. Pretty cool that they do that. They have a great owner and a great support system.

    Fisher Flying Products - Producing Classic Aircraft Kits
     
  8. Mar 19, 2012 #8

    Vigilant1

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    The built-up ribs on the Jodels certainly will require a lot of time, but perhaps there are alternatives there. Ply ribs gang cut on a band saw wouldn't be much heavier and could be made rather quickly. Or, if you could put up with the foam and glass (a rigged-up positive ventilation face hood, lots of protection) just long enough do one large sandwich panel you could cut your ribs from that--they'd be stronger and lighter.
     
  9. Mar 19, 2012 #9

    Dan Thomas

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    I have a Jodel D-11. It's a LONG way from being a strutless Volksplane. The VP is an ugly and slow machine.

    The Jodel's spar is the center of the entire airplane. Most of the work is concentrated in it. Other airplanes just spread the work out among the rest of the airframe and they take as long to build.

    Dan
     
  10. Mar 19, 2012 #10

    erkki67

    erkki67

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    The Littner is a good looking bird, but you need to build severeral different ribs with all that goes with it.

    It should be a low winger without the strutts like the VP2.

    Further a taildragger and a side by side seater.

    There is a bird that comes fairly close to what I mean, the Pataplume from Leger Aviation.

    I was really wondering if there is existing an other plane with similar features somewere on this planet?

    Bst rgds

    Erkki

    :gig:
     
  11. Mar 19, 2012 #11

    TFF

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    Somewhere I have some D11 plans and I think the line have some smart ideas, but the question was modern; my point was why reinvent the wheel with great designs around and when no one is working on anything new. To me what he described would be a D11 or the Littner JR VI. The Littner looks like the most modern.
     
  12. Mar 19, 2012 #12

    fly2kads

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    Another aircraft that meets most of what you're looking for is the Menestrel II.

    Nicollier Menestrel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    One of the things you'll have to decide is the useful load you'll require. Most of the two-seat, VW-powered aircraft are limited in that manner, effectively making them 1+1 seaters when carrying full fuel.
     
  13. Mar 19, 2012 #13

    autoreply

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  14. Mar 19, 2012 #14

    topspeed100

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    I just checked the DeltaHawk site and indeed there is a lot to save when using a diesel. Diesels are powerful engines...I have a huge scar in my elbow caused by a propeller of a model diesel engine in 1977.
     
  15. Mar 19, 2012 #15

    Dan Thomas

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    Just try to buy a Delta Hawk. Not in production, and maybe never. Same with the Zoche. These things have been little more than hype for a long time. The only diesels in production at the moment are the Thielert Centurion and the SMA. Both pretty expensive and still suffering some bugs.

    Dan
     
  16. Mar 19, 2012 #16

    topspeed100

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    Well I was wondering..Thielert powered birds land here on the highways every now and then.

    So no miracle there then...like axial vector engine...only a dream. Thanks for the info.
     
  17. Mar 19, 2012 #17

    erkki67

    erkki67

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    I would rather like to see something similar to the CH601 HD but built out of wood, with retrangular wing, which makes it's construction more easy.

    Erkki
     
  18. Mar 19, 2012 #18

    topspeed100

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  19. Mar 19, 2012 #19

    Jay Kempf

    Jay Kempf

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    Not in production maybe but tooled and ready and have been produced definitely. I visited the machine shop where all the tooling was in place and castings and forgings were all over the place. So it is not a case of not ready for production. I used to be a manufacturer's rep for the machine shop partner to Delta Hawk. The owner of the production facility is 80+ still owns and flies and supports the cause to the tune of many millions invested. This shop also does engine cases and other parts for Lycoming and lots of Boeing, Airbus and other aerospace stuff. The problem is most likely in certification, dealer network setup, yadda, not in the ability to physically make motors. That is why you see potential OEMs using prototypes most likely and no engines actually on the market.
     
  20. Mar 19, 2012 #20

    4trade

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    I cut and glue "build up" Cassutt rib approx one hour/ rib with good jig....so it is not that time consuming as it looks
     

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