Model A Ford Engine for Aircraft

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don january

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spduffee: See what you can find out about the Funk airplane powered by a 4 cylinder ford the plane was built in 1938 and the engine in 1928, both plane and engine were certified. There is so many newer engines to pick from I personaly would forget the old ones and search Corvair, Volkswagon, Mazda rotory, even these engines have been around quite some time. the model A engines were heavy and the print for conversion I have is near 80 years old and in todays safty standereds I would'nt bolt one to my plane inless your building a hanger queen. Don
 

revkev6

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as I said back in the begining of this thread.... unless you absolutely need the look the model A is not a reliable engine. I own a 1928 and a 1932 ford... i drove a flathead to work today! I would NEVER get in an airplane that had a model A engine. I use the V8's in cars... no 4 bangers. the guys who try to get more power out of a model a in a car don't usually get much more than 10-20k miles out of the bottom end. that's in a car. you start putting higher compression and better breathing intake and exhaust on these motors and the babbits can't take the abuse. bottom line is you end up with an engine that makes in the 50hp range but weighs 300-350 lbs and is built from components that are 85 years old!

the donovan block is EXPENSIVE! solves many of the issues with the engine though.
 

starlord

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as I said back in the begining of this thread.... unless you absolutely need the look the model A is not a reliable engine. I own a 1928 and a 1932 ford... i drove a flathead to work today! I would NEVER get in an airplane that had a model A engine.
Thanks Rev Kev, this is why I posted the previous questions. I like the idea of a stable and slow machine that is gentle to fly, however the problem I see with the pietenpol is the ford engine, it is heavy for the power and not a reliable engine in this day, the idea behind this aircraft was to use a power plant that is easy to get and easy to repair. this is the reason I am asking questions about the model a engine and the pietenpol.
Some more?'s
So the weight is around 350 pounds.
1. Since the prop is bolted to the crank, how fast can I turn it (maximum)and how big is the prop on the pietenpol?
2. What weight can the pietenpol carry in the engine bay?
3. Has anyone looked at using diesel engines in a aircraft?
Thanks
Tasmanian James
 
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spduffee, starlord.
I'm new to this site. I have just stumbled on to it. I realize this is an old thread, but I thought I'd put some info on it just in case anyone is still reading it.

I fly Ken Perkins Piet N34KP. Some of you may have seen it at the Brodhead fly in. I may have given you a ride! Here is some Pietenpol info. Ken's engine with oil and water and an Ole Fahlin prop weighs 256.3 lbs. The engine has shell bearings on all main and connecting rods. It puts out about 60 h.p. with a 5.2 : 1 compression aluminum head. The a/c typically cruises between 70 and 75 mph. The a/c weighs 667 lbs. empty, with oil and water. Ken used a gross wt. of 1150 lbs. I weigh just over 200 lbs. and I've flown a large (280 lbs.) passenger with 1/2 fuel on board ( 6 gals.). It was a leisurely climb, but climb it did. I was more worried about getting the passenger into and out of the front cockpit than anything else. It is difficult getting into and out of the front cockpit.

If anyone has any more questions, drop me a line.

Richard17_orange_piet.jpgIMG_0400.jpg
 

Swampyankee

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Ok, glad I asked. I was going for the retro-authenticity look, but it's not really important. I'm comfortable with the C-85/C-90, do I'll stick with those, I guess. Thank you all for your quick replies!
The Continental A-40, an O-4 engine, was first produced in 1933.

I think a better retro look would be one of the inverted in-lines.
 

TFF

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I think it's more about opinion that it's either music to fly behind or annoying. You will hear the engine.
 

cheapracer

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Ken's engine with oil and water and an Ole Fahlin prop weighs 256.3 lbs.
It is what it is for the owners reasons, but I would take the option of a VW Golf Diesel, or similar diesel, for the same weight and power to end up with the same sort of period sound and feel, a bit of smoke even, but with cross country bulletproof reliability.

But that's me.
 
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An update on Ken Perkin's Pietenpol. The model A started the first time in 6 years this last Monday, the 25th. I've been working on reassembly the last few months. It started on the first pull with a hot mag. Runs very smooth. One more step on the road to airworthiness.
 
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Ken's Piet has flown! I moved it to my hanger three weeks ago, a short flight. I've flown it 2 hours since. It run very smooth. So far so good.
 

mullacharjak

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I was looking at Torque figures for the Ford model A and some modern Car engines available in my area.I am also interested in the Pietenpol aircamper. One engine which is available here besides many others looked like it could equal or exceed the Model A in everyparameter.It is made by Toyota and goes by the name of 3ZR-Fe and its a 2.0 L I4 engine.Its all aluminum and the weight is quoted as 100 kg.I looked at the Torque curve which is quite flat.It produces 115 ft lb torque at 2000rpm while Model A is shown as 100ft lb at this RPM.In my opinion both engines look evenly matched as far as torque vs rpm is concerned.It is surprising because tthe toyota engine is only 2.0L.I was thinking of a direct drive conversion.
 
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Another consideration is the weight of the engine. On Ken Perkins Piet, which he built to the plans, we ended up moving the engine 7 inches forward to get inside the aft c.g.. Piets tend to be tail heavy and that is really noticeable with today's larger, heavier people. I listed the engine weight in an earlier post. Something to think about.
 
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A thought. Is the torque value you listed for the model A at the original configuration, or as modified and flown now. The one I fly has almost twice the original horsepower and I would suspect higher torque. The model A has over a liter more displacement than the engine you listed. With the higher compression heads and model B cam that most people use in the Piet the torgue would be higher than original.
 

mullacharjak

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A thought. Is the torque value you listed for the model A at the original configuration, or as modified and flown now. The one I fly has almost twice the original horsepower and I would suspect higher torque. The model A has over a liter more displacement than the engine you listed. With the higher compression heads and model B cam that most people use in the Piet the torgue would be higher than original.
That value is for the unmodified engine as originally designed.ModelA is a good engine to use in the USA as its cheap and available everywhere and upto the task.We dont have a single ModelA where I am sitting.
I want to build a pietenpol with an engine available local.
 
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