Mitchell Wing

Homebuilt Aircraft & Kit Plane Forum

Help Support Homebuilt Aircraft & Kit Plane Forum:

henryk

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2010
Messages
5,959
Location
krakow,poland
About the Swift one of my ancient hang gliding student had the #01 !
"1994 – Under Henryk Doruch’s Leadership his Team took First Place at 5th World Microlight Championship in Poznan "

=and this time I was seeing first in Poznan this exemplar of SWIFT (Bright Star ) made thre loops in serie ! =it was UNBELIVABLE ...
 

henryk

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2010
Messages
5,959
Location
krakow,poland

Bille Floyd

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 26, 2019
Messages
469
Hey Billie,
Small spherical dirt and water we live on. Where are you located ? I live in Escondido. I trained with John Heiney and have been to the top of Horse Canyon but never flew it. I dont hold an H4 rating so have never flown Torrey. I flew out of Crestline/ Marshall at Andy Jackson Flightpark up in San Bernadino. Rob McKenzie taught me to fly and for that I will be in his debt until the atmosphere fills up with dust and dirt and wings no longer provide lift.
We need to get together when I get back to SoCal in June. I am very interested in your plans for the Exxtacy. I will be (hopefully) trailering a Mitchell A10. Quick trip to Rosarito Beach where "freedom" means unfettered access to the skies. Such a shame, having to go outside of the USA to persue something as basic as ultralight flight. Try launching from La Jolla Shores. Hands behind your back. Get in the car.
CSS , in San Bernadino ; ((That)) is where i met you !
I was a member of that club, till 2018 ; i fly a green and white Exxtacy
and both my legs are made of carbon & SS.
Lots of good times and memories , i had with those club members !!!!!
Last time i was there ; i gave my WW U-2 away, to the guy who drives
the tractor, and keeps the road to Andy's club open and clean.

When this corona Bug thing, is over ; i'll pm Ya when i plan to go fly
off Crestline again.

You could come to Las Vegas to fly your ultralight ; we have
some really nice dry lake beds to launch from .

Bille
 

delta

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 26, 2011
Messages
2,448
Location
Brookside Utah
So.. what are you currently working on?
Hi Tom

I've got two Q2's in the barn, and a thousand out of the boxers on the drawing board. What I'm actually working on is gumption. Turning 70 next month and the old grey hare ain't what he used to be for some reason. The weather's pretty nice right now in sw Utah and after I get the garden going, the roof fixed, the cabin coated, and the barn cleaned and organized, I plan on slapping something like this together and flying it to Oshkosh.

Rick
90-80-110a.JPG90-80-110b.JPG
 

henryk

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2010
Messages
5,959
Location
krakow,poland

=or LIFTING BODY ?
 

Tom Emery

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2020
Messages
54
CSS , in San Bernadino ; ((That)) is where i met you !
I was a member of that club, till 2018 ; i fly a green and white Exxtacy
and both my legs are made of carbon & SS.
Lots of good times and memories , i had with those club members !!!!!
Last time i was there ; i gave my WW U-2 away, to the guy who drives
the tractor, and keeps the road to Andy's club open and clean.

When this corona Bug thing, is over ; i'll pm Ya when i plan to go fly
off Crestline again.

You could come to Las Vegas to fly your ultralight ; we have
some really nice dry lake beds to launch from .

Bille
Hey Billie,
I remember you. Good ol' Crestline. I still have a couple of gliders there. You ever hear of someone "motorizing" an Exxtacy?
Every hang glider wing I see whith a trike setup looks like a beginner wing with a single surface or limited double surface.
I have been researching the Kasper wing thanks to this thread. It looks a lot closer to a ridgid wing.
I am still wanting a Mitchell wing. Just watched a video on you tube of the 1983 Oshkosh meet. It dealt with the ultralights. Almost every ultralight there was of the Quicksilver design. They were all single surface fabric covered "low and slow" designs...except the Mitchell wing. They had the A10 model made of aluminum and it was lightyears beyond the rest. I guess that's why it won all those awards.Here it is 40 years later and it still looks pretty radical.
Las Vegas...oh yeah! Got a good friend, Ace Parnell, my old Commercial Dive Boss, living there. I'm trying to talk him into getting an ultralight. Unfortunately his head is stuck underwater.
Give me a call sometime: 619-253-2474
Roll it in, not run it in,. Tom Emery
 

Tom Emery

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2020
Messages
54
Hi Tom

I've got two Q2's in the barn, and a thousand out of the boxers on the drawing board. What I'm actually working on is gumption. Turning 70 next month and the old grey hare ain't what he used to be for some reason. The weather's pretty nice right now in sw Utah and after I get the garden going, the roof fixed, the cabin coated, and the barn cleaned and organized, I plan on slapping something like this together and flying it to Oshkosh.

Rick
View attachment 95955View attachment 95956
Hello Rick,
What an unusual aircraft. I have not seen that , and I have been doing a lot of research. It harkens back to an almost Leonardo DaVinci design. You need to take some pictures and post them here. Wow.
I know what you mean about getting all the "honey do" chores out of the way. I'm thinking about hiring a local kid to do the heavy lifting.
Stay in touch. Let us know how you are doing.
You who are about to fly, I salute you.
Tom Emery
 

Tom Emery

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2020
Messages
54
Hello Tom,
I feel good to meet people like you on the internet that helps a lot motivation ! After some researches I haven't found any A10 in my country even in close countries. I think maybe it is slightly heavier than the B10....For now I intend to use the A10's rudders solution for the B10, it is smart and maybe less dragy than the former rudders( maybe...) I am close to retirement ,too, and I am still working at the Airbus company,as a technician on the A330... About the Swift one of my ancient hang gliding student had the #01 ! He went to Bright Star, and even Stanford university, met all the staff and professors who did this marvelous flying machine to help for building his Swift and learn how to fly "her"! He stayed in California there for about 3 months !.
Regards
C.Bouzerand
Hello Claud,
If you ever come to So Cal feel free to stay at my place. My wife is a great cook and you could show her some new recipes. I could of sworn I wrote back yesterday, but I cant seem to find it, so here you go.
Skies the place,
Tom Emery
 

claude.bouzerand

Active Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2020
Messages
27
Location
Toulouse France
Thanks a lot Tom, I would be happy to meet you and, you know what? I like cooking ! Back to the B10 project, I think I must go to the EXOMO company to give them more precisions. It is the company that sells electriacks for paramotor and/or trikes and ultralights. I must concentrate on the wing, powering lmay little wait ...If you travel to France and especially to Toulouse, don' forget to make a stop, it will be a pleasure to meet you and your wife will be welcomed , of course !
Blue sky
Claude
 

Tom Emery

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2020
Messages
54
Thanks a lot Tom, I would be happy to meet you and, you know what? I like cooking ! Back to the B10 project, I think I must go to the EXOMO company to give them more precisions. It is the company that sells electriacks for paramotor and/or trikes and ultralights. I must concentrate on the wing, powering lmay little wait ...If you travel to France and especially to Toulouse, don' forget to make a stop, it will be a pleasure to meet you and your wife will be welcomed , of course !
Blue sky
Claude
Hello Claude,
I have been to Paris. Spent two out of three days at the Louvre. Could not get over the sculptures. Mesmerizing.
I'll keep you in mind if I ever return. Thanks for the invite.
Please let me know what you use for a motor. I might have to buy a non motorized one (hang glider) and will consider going electric. There seems to be a lot of new designs using electrics as a propulsion system.
Is your wing equipped with a pod and engine mount, or are you using a bare wing and adding the rest? I don't know how hard it is to post pictures here, but I would love to see some, or if you would, you can send them to my email address: Emerysandiego@gmail.com.
Keep "up" the good work.
Best to you,
Tom Emery
 

Bille Floyd

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 26, 2019
Messages
469
Hey Billie,
I remember you. Good ol' Crestline. I still have a couple of gliders there. You ever hear of someone "motorizing" an Exxtacy?
Every hang glider wing I see whith a trike setup looks like a beginner wing with a single surface or limited double surface.
I have been researching the Kasper wing thanks to this thread. It looks a lot closer to a ridgid wing.
I am still wanting a Mitchell wing. ...
...
A guy here in Vegas , had a motor-harness, with a folding prop, on
his Exxtacy ; he would climb out 500' AGL, and level off, and power
down a bit, to find a thermal, and then he'd kill the engine, and go to
cloud-base !!

I know Ya want the Mitchell wing ---
but the Exxtacy is way stronger, with as good a glide ratio as the
Mitchell wing ; and , it can get tossed on the glider racks of your vehicle
in under a 1/2 hour after landing , (the Mitchell wing Can't).

Bille

 

Tom Emery

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2020
Messages
54

=or LIFTING BODY ?
Hello Henryk
You got me curious. Are you building a Kasperwing? Those things are amazing. Watched a video of one coming down vertically. They used smoke to show how the air behaved over the wing. If I weren't so hooked on the Mitchell, I would persue one of these things. They are so docile, yet turn pretty radically. Reminds me of the Mitchell. An old design that has held up well.
What size BMW engine are you using? That will be one sweet sounding engine. I just gave away a 1984 Yamaha Virago. I can't take it with me on my drive across the country. I never thought to use the engine as a power source. Good thing I have another one on the west coast. It's probably too big though at 1100cc.
They are very reliable. Four stroke just chugs along.
Gentlemen, start your (airplane) engines.
Best,
Tom Emery
 

Victor Bravo

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Joined
Jul 30, 2014
Messages
8,974
Location
KWHP, Los Angeles CA, USA
Tom, I have a fair amount of soaring experience, but nothing in the foot launch world. My concern is that if you are flying a Mitchell Wing in Southern California on a rowdy day, it may be un-manageable. There have been two or three "generations" of rigid wing gliders that have come afterward, and a lot of this stuff was done because of the limitations of the classic gliders that came before them. So going back in time will come with the price of not having the control authority, structural margin, etc. that you want if you have big air. The transport-ability is another issue too of course. There's nothing wrong with antique flying machines (I've owned six or seven of them), but I had to live within their limits even when I could have used more (performance/control/efficiency/comfort).
 

Tom Emery

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2020
Messages
54
A guy here in Vegas , had a motor-harness, with a folding prop, on
his Exxtacy ; he would climb out 500' AGL, and level off, and power
down a bit, to find a thermal, and then he'd kill the engine, and go to
cloud-base !!

I know Ya want the Mitchell wing ---
but the Exxtacy is way stronger, with as good a glide ratio as the
Mitchell wing ; and , it can get tossed on the glider racks of your vehicle
in under a 1/2 hour after landing , (the Mitchell wing Can't).

Bille

 

henryk

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2010
Messages
5,959
Location
krakow,poland
You got me curious. Are you building a Kasperwing?
=20 HP , 80 kG Thrust force !
="GREEN" KASPERWING...

=+ 2 place. (blue)


=+ 2-place BKB1-A composites (PARABEAM) wing.
 
Last edited:

jedi

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2009
Messages
2,456
Location
Sahuarita Arizona, Renton Washington, USA
Tom, I have a fair amount of soaring experience, but nothing in the foot launch world. My concern is that if you are flying a Mitchell Wing in Southern California on a rowdy day, it may be un-manageable. There have been two or three "generations" of rigid wing gliders that have come afterward, and a lot of this stuff was done because of the limitations of the classic gliders that came before them. So going back in time will come with the price of not having the control authority, structural margin, etc. that you want if you have big air. The transport-ability is another issue too of course. There's nothing wrong with antique flying machines (I've owned six or seven of them), but I had to live within their limits even when I could have used more (performance/control/efficiency/comfort).
Just my opinion.

Mitchel wing will do fine. Big problem with it is portability. Advantage is the use of tip rudders and ailerons so no spoiler float or spoiler actuation for roll control. There is a lot of spoiler action in "big air" if they are used for roll control.

OK, in the big air the spoiler performance loss is one you can afford but it is always collected. You even pay the piper in calm air.
 

Tom Emery

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2020
Messages
54
Hello Billie,
Thanks for posting that video. I had a feeling someone must have motorized the Exxtacy. I bet you can get that into the air with a twenty hp engine.
I am not real fond of those "Mosquito" harnesses. They are pricey and a pain to get off the ground. I am reassured that if I want to I can hook up a trike and go find lift with that Exxtacy wing. Hoo rahh.
Still hoping to find a Mitchell wing. If I cant find one I have options. I also like the look and flight characteristics of that Kasperwing. As I continue my research, I keep finding more wing designs. I located a "Goldwing" on Tuscon Craigslist for $800.00. It is missing the canard and it looks pretty worn out, but maybe someone here might want to tackle it. I'm not sure where to post it on this site, so if you want, would you pass that along? It has been for sale for a while now and at first I didn't know what it was until I saw a you tube video of a reunion of Goldwing owners. As far as I can tell it is a little heavy (376 lbs.) to qualify as an ultralight. But who knows? Maybe a ballistic parachute allowance would help with the weight issue. I imagine the motor alone is worth the price. It looks like a 2 cylinder Rotax engine.
Well let's hope it goes to good home. It sure looks sweet in the air.
It must be spring, the Canadian Geese are winging north.
Be well,
Tom Emery
 

Tom Emery

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2020
Messages
54
Tom, I have a fair amount of soaring experience, but nothing in the foot launch world. My concern is that if you are flying a Mitchell Wing in Southern California on a rowdy day, it may be un-manageable. There have been two or three "generations" of rigid wing gliders that have come afterward, and a lot of this stuff was done because of the limitations of the classic gliders that came before them. So going back in time will come with the price of not having the control authority, structural margin, etc. that you want if you have big air. The transport-ability is another issue too of course. There's nothing wrong with antique flying machines (I've owned six or seven of them), but I had to live within their limits even when I could have used more (performance/control/efficiency/comfort).
Hello Victor Bravo,
Yes you really nailed it with the "big air" equation. It is amazing what 5 mph difference in wind speed will do on launch. Typically we would get up to Crestline around two thirty and set up our gliders. No one was in a hurry because the wind was usually pretty brisk. Because this is Ridge soaring the wind comes in cycles. In fact the first few gliders might actually wait for the lull time between cycles as this would be enough wind to get off the hill, but not so much as to make it nerve wracking.
Then there are the people who don't time it right (guilty as charged) and that usually doesn't end well.
Then you hear about the carnage of the group that goes to the Owen's valley to get some "big air". Almost guaranteed someone will have a mishap.
After watching hours and hours of take off and landing videos, I can see the differences in the way the different designs handle crosswind situations. I get the feeling the Mitchell will get mighty twitchy in those conditions. It's paradoxical that you want the good thermals to create the lift to soar in, but too much of a good thing can put you on your back wondering what just happened.
There is a you tube video of a "professional " (he gets paid to fly) hang glider pilot by the name of "Wolfie". If you get a chance type in "Wolfie at Lake Elsinore ". The guy is flying the best equipment straight and level and the next second he is upside down and throwing the chute. Thank god he's got great reflexes. It just so happens that the spine he flew over has a reputation for throwing vicious little lift bombs. It only takes a fraction of a second to lift one side of the wing past vertical. The rest is a guaranteed crash...with or without the chute.
He made it okay, but the wing got the stuffing kicked out of it.
I can see that ultralight flights are much the same. Go early in the morning or catch some evening "glass", but stay away from the midday "rowdies".
"No thank you please it only makes me sneeze".
Tom Emery
 

Bille Floyd

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 26, 2019
Messages
469
...
I also like the look and flight characteristics of that Kasperwing. As I continue my research, I keep finding more wing designs.
...
The Kasper looks nice ---
until ya kill the engine , and want to use it as a soaring machine ; then
that is when you will wish ya had just stuck with the glider you already
own, (the Exxtacy) !!

I have flown my Exxtacy at mid day, in solid 35 to 38 + wind , with
mixed in 2,000 f/p Up thermal, here in Las Vegas ; the Exxtacy can
handle it just FINE ! That glider is built like a tank ; and it doesn't
need wires to hold the frame in place because it is fully cantilevered
wing ; the side wires are for control surfaces Only , and in a pod they
could go byby.

The Exxtacy glider has a VNE of 62mph @ a max (pilot) weight of
358-Lb, with an L/D of , (17.5 : 1).
Subtract your body weight, from 358 ; that is how much weight your
engine, and landing gears can total up to.

Even Dirty , (with a Trike) ; it would preform well, at a lower airspeed.
BUT :
The Best part about the Exxtacy glider ; You, "Already" own one !!!!


Bille
 
Last edited:

Tom Emery

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2020
Messages
54
The Kasper looks nice ---
until ya kill the engine , and want to use it as a soaring machine ; then
that is when you will wish ya had just stuck with the glider you already
own, (the Exxtacy) !!

I have flown my Exxtacy at mid day, in solid 35 to 38 + wind , with
mixed in 2,000 f/p Up thermal, here in Las Vegas ; the Exxtacy can
handle it just FINE ! That glider is built like a tank ; and it doesn't
need wires to hold the frame in place because it is fully cantilevered
wing ; the side wires are for control surfaces Only , and in a pod they
could go byby.

The Exxtacy glider has a VNE of 62mph @ a max weight of 358-Lb
with an L/D of , (17.5 : 1).
Subtract your body weight, from 358 ; that is how much weight your
engine, and landing gears can total up to.

Even Dirty , (with a Trike) ; it would preform well, at a lower airspeed.
BUT :
The Best part about the Exxtacy glider ; You, "Already" own one !!!!


Bille
Hello Billie,
Yes,, I am going to keep the Exxtacy. If I cant find the Mitchell I want,(A10) for the right price,i I will definitely put together a trike. I will hopefully do both.
Time and money...
Tom Emery
 
Top