# Mike Patey - Scrappy's Wing

### Help Support Homebuilt Aircraft & Kit Plane Forum:

#### Hephaestus

##### Well-Known Member
for spot landing and 150 kts I'd go helicopter
He's got at least one of those too

#### TFF

##### Well-Known Member
A helicopter might be better, but that from scratch would be hell to design. Yes done before. One that can carry 2000 lb and go 150. He can get an A Star but that’s masochism to pay that kind of operating costs.

He has plenty of money. He has a half a dozen planes including a turboprop. Videos and sponsored stuff might help out but Scrappy is a quarter million dollar homebuilt. The engine is $100k.$5000 wheels and tires. Once this thing is done, he is on to Draco II. The only thing that slows him down is nothing.

#### REVAN

##### Well-Known Member
Impressive.... I think it will be a big attraction at airshows and on the internet.

After all that high-tech wing morphing, I hope Mike comes up with an equally cool and high-tech wingtip design. I'll be disappointed with a rectangular wingtip. I'm looking forward to more WOW!

BTW - Does anyone know if Mike is building an all metal wing, or if it will have fabric on it? I'd been assuming it will be all metal, but I don't recall if that is because I heard him say it somewhere, or it if it is just an assumption on my part.

##### Well-Known Member
I am trying to get my head around it, the slat allows a higher AOA for stall, and the flaps increase chamber increasing the max lift but reducing the Stall AOA. So looking at what he has I would have said that the flaps chord look to be short for the amount of added slat area, will be interesting to see how it performs in practice.

#### lear999wa

##### Active Member
It's what Boeing and Airbus have been doing for years. But agreed, in a much smaller package in the honebuilt airplane realm.

#### ToddK

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
It’s very impressive. Very impressive.

Functionality, I have to wonder how much better it’s going to perform (if at all) then a very lightly built stol plane with a 300hp turbo Edge Performance engine.

#### BJC

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
It’s very impressive. Very impressive.

Functionality, I have to wonder how much better it’s going to perform (if at all) then a very lightly built stol plane with a 300hp turbo Edge Performance engine.
That is a good question. A light aircraft always will have an advantage in STOL.

It seems to me that he wants a fully equipped toy that will do everything in comfort and with his chosen style. Nothing wrong with that: he is good for sport aviation.

BJC

#### ScaleBirdsScott

##### Well-Known Member
Yeah he admitted in one recent video that the latest Yee Haw with en Epic Epex would beat Scrappy on the STOL drag line every time.

But Scrappy is a luxury SUV with a 2000lb+ useful load that can still get in and out of the same terrain as the other Justs and Super Cubs. He wants to hang with the guys and bring lunch and spare gas, and so a hot-rodded to the end of the planet Carbon Cub is his approach.

#### EzyBuildWing

##### Well-Known Member
Awesome-build! ......but how about twin Steve Henry EPeX300Ti 300 hp Yammy's on a Lockwood Aircam?
Ultimate vertical climb-out?

#### TarDevil

##### Well-Known Member
One thing I do want to comment on for this video is that even this apparently "short" video did give me a good sense of what is trying to happen with the airflow using slats. Even though as mentioned I'm definitely not super into aerodynamic theories and am in no way formally educated on any of it. But the idea of slats creating enough air velocity over 'top' of wing that it essentially forces enough entrained airmass to be pulled down around the 'top/back' of the wing at high AOA that it prevents the wing forming a pocket of air from that which is flowing around the trailing edge of the wing. It suddenly was very intuitive from his explanation and images exactly how the slat could help. And that's something that while I've heard things explained by engineers in the past, never really would understand in quite the same way. Always just a bunch of terms that don't connect to intuition. Patey because he's as far as I know not a formal traditional engineer, has the right knack for absorbing this information and being able to re-explain it quite well.
This^

#### TarDevil

##### Well-Known Member
Functionality, I have to wonder how much better it’s going to perform (if at all) then a very lightly built stol plane with a 300hp turbo Edge Performance engine.
He makes no bones that plenty of planes (he specifically mentioned Steve Henry) will out perform him in STOL competition.
But that's not Scrappy's mission. This is his techno "go everywhere" family plane.
(Edit: posted before I saw several similar contributions)

#### Hephaestus

##### Well-Known Member
Might depend on his linear actuator - but I could see it being competitive in the stol drags - but that might depend on how fast he can get those flaps/slats in and out (and how long the course is obviously).

Draco had winglets, I'm kind of expecting nothing less, and wondering if there's a set of spoilers still to come.

#### ToddK

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Yeah he admitted in one recent video that the latest Yee Haw with en Epic Epex would beat Scrappy on the STOL drag line every time.

But Scrappy is a luxury SUV with a 2000lb+ useful load that can still get in and out of the same terrain as the other Justs and Super Cubs. He wants to hang with the guys and bring lunch and spare gas, and so a hot-rodded to the end of the planet Carbon Cub is his approach.
Forgive me, while a big fan of Mike and his Scrappy build, I have not watched all the videos in their entirety. Does Scrappy have a pratical amount of room for 2000lbs of stuff?

#### Tiger Tim

##### Well-Known Member
Does Scrappy have a pratical amount of room for 2000lbs of stuff?
Two occupants of probably unlimited size, a huge integral belly pod, provision for external stores and potential future rocket units, and 120 gallons(!) of gas I suppose adds up.

Even if that doesn’t total to 2,000 pounds, everything is more or less along the CG so I imagine you wouldn’t ever have to even think about weight and balance. Just load up and go.

#### REVAN

##### Well-Known Member
...But that's not Scrappy's mission. This is his techno "go everywhere" family plane.
(Edit: posted before I saw several similar contributions)
If this is the case, and after seeing where he has gone with this aircraft, it seems to me that he could have saved a lot of time and money and had a larger internal volume better suited to this mission if he had started with a Glasair Sportsman kit as the foundation aircraft instead of a Carbon Cub. The Sportsman already has the carbon skin over a welded steel frame, so he would have been able to skip all that extra work he had to do making Scrappy's fuselage. That leaves extra time and money for the wings and gear. Thinking about it, his gear, wings and engine on a Sportsman would have made a cool airplane with a kind of Draco-like look and feel to it, and Draco is his style.

#### Lendo

##### Well-Known Member
Chezrad, Thanks, must have missed that, I don't like the idea of cutting big holes in the WEB, but it's a CAD Drawing presently and I would like to see it in the flesh, so to speak and Load tested.
George

#### zolotiyeruki

##### Member
Two occupants of probably unlimited size, a huge integral belly pod, provision for external stores and potential future rocket units, and 120 gallons(!) of gas I suppose adds up.

Even if that doesn’t total to 2,000 pounds, everything is more or less along the CG so I imagine you wouldn’t ever have to even think about weight and balance. Just load up and go.
720lbs fuel
500 lbs pilot and passenger
2x 70 lbs bikes
That gets you to 1360 lbs without any baggage. Now, finding 640 lbs of cargo to put in the baggage compartments might be a challenge, but everything's overspecced in this thing in the base case

#### TarDevil

##### Well-Known Member
it seems to me that he could have saved a lot of time and money and had a larger internal volume better suited to this mission if he had started with a Glasair Sportsman kit as the foundation aircraft instead of a Carbon Cub
Well, he didn't stick to his original goal of building something "cheap," but this video speaks to his choice on airframe...

#### Hephaestus

##### Well-Known Member

They play in the desert - finding 600lbs more is always easy- just bring extra water

#### Tiger Tim

##### Well-Known Member
I think it’s pretty neat how even if the slats did nothing else they probably push the CP forward to help counter the pitching moment of the flaps. Hopefully not so far forward that it becomes pitch divergent but I’m sure that’s been accounted for.