Medical Deck for R-44 / R-66 Comments encouraged

Homebuilt Aircraft & Kit Plane Forum

Help Support Homebuilt Aircraft & Kit Plane Forum:

Vigilant1

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Jan 24, 2011
Messages
6,978
Location
US
Pretty nice. Would the B Pillar remain (as in the third photo), or is the structure going to be beefed up to do without it?
 

qchen98

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2021
Messages
60
Could the patient take over the cyclic if the pilot becomes incapacitated?
 

TFF

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2010
Messages
15,865
Location
Memphis, TN
Third world countries always ask for these items. Some first world too. Enstrom has something similar for their turbine and the old A model has MASH style technically available. I also know of a private organization trying to do something similar for single patient with a piston helicopter. It’s a missionary style organization and the country they want to help have no public EMS helicopters; a couple of private ones for the rich only. One of the 45 minutes by air, 5 hours by road stories. Villages with no ambulances either. The budget EMS really can’t do too much but strap someone down and fly. Not enough capacity for fancy equipment and performance. Sometimes better than nothing.
 

Rhino

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Apr 8, 2004
Messages
1,725
Location
KTHA
Height limit for patients? Looks like a pretty short platform. Where does equipment go? My trauma bag would never fit in that space in front of the seat, and there doesn't appear to be any room on a bulkhead or overhead. I wouldn't count on a nurse, certainly not a doctor. There's no room to do anything, or for the equipment necessary to do it with. I can't see anything being done beyond maybe limited bleeding control and possibly airways and a BVM for respiration, though I don't see a place to put it. Possibly an AED if you could find a place for it. Can't see anything beyond a medic being needed here.
 

TFF

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2010
Messages
15,865
Location
Memphis, TN
Definitely not for the US market. Malpractice would kill it here. US EMS companies also don’t want to give up the $35k flights with less either. I know some people who have dealt with third world countries and aviation. It’s literally horse and buggy infrastructure they are trying to circumvent.
 

Mad MAC

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2004
Messages
810
Location
Hamilton New Zealand
Non CAMETS Don't have the room
Whats CAMETS, its not a abbreviation I know.

Looks quite practical for those on a budget.

The shield to keep patient limbs out of the pilot space/ of the control column might need to go to the instrument panel. Will the centre part of the cyclic column foul it or a flailing limb?

I know this is the budget EMS version but
Wheres the O2 going?
Do they need somewhere to hang IV's
Do they need a 12v power system (or ****** AC power).
Where is flight nurse's bag of stuff going with inflight access (Squirrel cheek style bulged door maybe?).

If you get into an O2 system, Oz's CASA's AC 21-39 has some bits not in the FAA doc's.
Edit: I see they have updated MG6 since I last used it, it is now closer to the CASA doc than it was.
 
Last edited:

Vigilant1

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Jan 24, 2011
Messages
6,978
Location
US
There's room under the med platform for some equipment, run hoses to it and use remote displays/controls.
There are lots of places in the world where the roads are bad/circuitous and the EMS/ambulance that shows up to the hut, 2 hours after the call, would not be as well equipped as this little helicopter could be. The difference is the ground option is 5 hours from call to ER, (2 of that on a bumpy road), vs 1 hour for the chopper. Plus, the helicopter brings a first-rate EMT with a small but first-rate kit tailored for the expected situation.
 
Last edited:

D Hillberg

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2010
Messages
1,458
Location
very low low low earth orbit
Height limit for patients? Looks like a pretty short platform. Where does equipment go? My trauma bag would never fit in that space in front of the seat, and there doesn't appear to be any room on a bulkhead or overhead. I wouldn't count on a nurse, certainly not a doctor. There's no room to do anything, or for the equipment necessary to do it with. I can't see anything being done beyond maybe limited bleeding control and possibly airways and a BVM for respiration, though I don't see a place to put it. Possibly an AED if you could find a place for it. Can't see anything beyond a medic being needed here.
Our 212 had all the bells and whistles seats seven - This set up beats a Hughes 500 with blistered doors.
Space is everywhere - O2 forward outlet controls to reachable area, 6'6" long 34" wide, Roof area galore.

Package the patient - back board, screamer suit, light stretcher, pillow with a blanket. 6 tie downs
[rope? bungee cords 😍]
Zolle machine, bag of meds, O2, splints, advanced 1st aid kit, barf bag. enough to get the job done.
 

D Hillberg

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2010
Messages
1,458
Location
very low low low earth orbit
Whats CAMETS, its not a abbreviation I know.

Looks quite practical for those on a budget.

The shield to keep patient limbs out of the pilot space/ of the control column might need to go to the instrument panel. Will the centre part of the cyclic column foul it or a flailing limb?

I know this is the budget EMS version but
Wheres the O2 going?
Do they need somewhere to hang IV's
Do they need a 12v power system (or ****** AC power).
Where is flight nurse's bag of stuff going with inflight access (Squirrel cheek style bulged door maybe?).

If you get into an O2 system, Oz's CASA's AC 21-39 has some bits not in the FAA doc's.
Edit: I see they have updated MG6 since I last used it, it is now closer to the CASA doc than it was.
CAMETS is a US minimum standard for crew and equipment standards - tools and crew for HEMS
so they can justify the outrageous billing statement -"You got a doctor and a nurse on your flight"
 

Rhino

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Apr 8, 2004
Messages
1,725
Location
KTHA
You could get some stuff in there, but not much. You'd also have to figure out what had to be left behind, and pray that doesn't turn out to be what you really need. Besides simply a place to store equipment, there has to be room to use it as well. We get cramped for space in the back of a medic going down the road. cluttonfred has it about right. This will be much more for emergency transport than for life support, certainly not ALS. Even basic lifesaving measures would be tough in that space. As Vigilant1 pointed out though, just emergency transport is an extremely viable need in many places, so I'm not in any way saying it isn't useful. I was just responding to the notion that a doctor or nurse could go in there. There wouldn't be anything they could do in that space that a medic couldn't. The resources that make a doctor useful really wouldn't fit, which would likely also apply to a nurse. About the only specific need I could see for a doctor in that space would be to clamp off an arterial bleed, but it would still have to be one close to where he's sitting. In the third world scenarios we're talking about, such circumstances aren't likely. But for emergency transport alone, certainly.
 

TFF

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2010
Messages
15,865
Location
Memphis, TN
CAMETS Is voluntary though. I know of a few EMS operations that did not go with it even if the average candidate was pretty much in line. a buddy flew the Eurocopter list and Augusta stuff with 50 hours of turbine. He had plenty harder low level piston flying. It’s just easier to go CAMETS and not think about it for a company.
 

Riggerrob

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2014
Messages
2,252
Location
Canada
Just hang medical equipment bags on the rear bulkhead.
As for meeting any certified medical standard .... even in the First World, most wounded construction workers would be happy to reach a hospital before they die of hypothermia, blood lose, etc.
Think about "the Golden Hour" when speed is more important than any field-level medical care.

Emergency procedures manuals for many remote construction sites, fishing boats, oil rigs, etc. say to do the basics to stabilize the patient, then evacuate them by boat or company truck. The company medic accompanies the wounded as another company employee drives as quickly as conditions permit towards the nearest hospital.
The second step is calling (radio or telephone) helicopter ambulance or truck ambulance to meet them part way down road number X. This is standard procedure at job sites so remote that a helicopter will need an hour or three to simply reach the job site. This also assumes that a decent runway (e.g. 3,000 feet long) is more than an hour's drive from the job site.
 
Last edited:

Vigilant1

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Jan 24, 2011
Messages
6,978
Location
US
Just hang medical equipment bags on the rear bulkhead.
As for meeting any certified medical standard .... even in the First World, most wounded construction workers would be happy to reach a hospital before they die of hypothermia, blood lose, etc.
All true. But the sad fact is that even if the wounded/sick person would have been very happy (and objectively better off) to take the express helicopter ride now rather than wait for the deluxe ride in an hour, if things take a bad turn there will be someone at the door of the next of kin explaining how those profiteers with the "inadequate, uncertified" helicopter killed their loved one.
In some countries, the certification/govt standards are the only thing that protects a business/group/individual from the predations of the plantiff's bar...and the protection is still far from complete.

But, to your point: I'm sure that in the Korean War a lot of those litter patients died enroute to the MASH. Still, getting them as stable as possible and getting them on the chopper was a huge advance and saved many folks who wouldn't have had a chance with the available field care.
 
Last edited:
Top