MC-100 BanBi or Gaz'aile 2?

Discussion in 'General Experimental Aviation Questions' started by VlJo, Aug 24, 2019.

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  1. Aug 24, 2019 #1

    VlJo

    VlJo

    VlJo

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    Hello,
    I'm wondering what of thses two models to choose. As far as I understood the MC-100 BanBi is aluminium and its empty weigth is 200kg. Cruizing at 280kmh (80hp rotax 912), 305 km/h max speed.
    The Gaz'aile 2 is wooden, its empty weigth is 265kg, cruizig at 220 km/h (56h.p. diesel), 240 km/h max speed.

    Please who has expirience with construction of either one of them -
    1. what time is needed to construct if everything is built by the builder?
    2. what is the price of the materials?
    3. What do you think if I'll use a diesel on MC-100? How many h.p. should it be in order to keep speed characteristics?

    it is possible to share list of materials of the models?

    Thank you
    Vladimir
     
  2. Aug 24, 2019 #2

    Battler Britton

    Battler Britton

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    well.......forgot definitivly diesel on a MC 100 !!
    just, why would you do that?
    Can't understand... Gaz'aile 2 is far esyaer to built, and with the right engine, not so far in perf, from Banbi..
    MC 100 is a pure marvel, but, like the Cricri, a true enterprise, these plane were designed by a Aérospatiale guy (which is Airbus or EADS now) he was working on project like Caravelle and Concorde...
    it is a high level building project.
    Gaz'aile are ( various version on the CD) very far easyer to built!
    and diesel version are flying every days!
    cost vary from 8000 € to 18000€ with a Citroen diesel, PSA diesel, wv flat four, or even second hand 912 rotax.
    you can find thousand of hours of information with the gaz'aile forum.
    once you buy CD...You are "hooked"!

    building time is....one year, every days and 5 to 8 hour a day..

    normal time is 4 years, for an average guy, with a (quite ) normal life..

    http://gazaile2.free.fr/phpBB2/index.php

    http://gazaile2.free.fr/
     
  3. Aug 24, 2019 #3

    Battler Britton

    Battler Britton

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    part of engine range for gaz'aile 18ivyi.jpg
     
  4. Aug 24, 2019 #4

    VlJo

    VlJo

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    Thank you Battler Britton
    Do you know what kind of plywood is used in Gaz'aile 2?
     
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  5. Aug 24, 2019 #5

    Geraldc

    Geraldc

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    Hi VIJo
    I am 60% through building a Gazaile.
    Plywood is Okoume.
    5 sheets 1.2mm
    4 sheets 1.6mm
    3 sheets 2mm
    1 sheet 2.5mm
    1 sheet 18mm
    When you buy your plans you can join a constructors group and buy all metal parts ,carbon spar caps ,blown canopy
    and belt reduction unit for motor.
    Molds for making parts are available for hire in France.
     
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  6. Sep 7, 2019 #6

    stevetosh

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    Hello,

    Please can i ask is the plans now in English? And what spruce did you use?
     
  7. Sep 7, 2019 #7

    Geraldc

    Geraldc

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    Gazaile is designed to use canadian oregon timber. Selecting and testing timber is in drawings.
    There are enough drawings translated to get started.Manufacturers forum has an English section.
    I had to import from France the canopy and carbon spar caps.
    I also chose to get the redrive and nearly all aluminium parts from French supplier.
    You have to make your own moulds for engine cowlings cooling ducts etc.
    This plane is suited for the Aeromomentum Am10 motor.
     
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  8. Sep 8, 2019 #8

    solynubes

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    The gazaile is same as an mcr100 but in wood and economic materials and tools

    the problem with this plane is to get the plywood of okume 1.2mm 1.6mm and 2mm
    there is only one supply in europe and nothihng in USA

    Vijo, were are you from?
     
  9. Sep 9, 2019 #9

    VlJo

    VlJo

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    I think I can go to France for purchasing the ocume plywood, but fist I need to decide what plane I'll go with.
    I live in EU
     
  10. Sep 9, 2019 #10

    VlJo

    VlJo

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    and one additional question - based on MC-100 is developed MRC-4S a four-seater.

    Does anyone knows if there are plans for four-five seater, e.g. gaz'aile 4 or 5? ;)
     
  11. Sep 9, 2019 #11

    Markproa

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    Hi VIJo, Another Gazaile builder here. I've never heard talk of a 4 seater and very much doubt if one is being considered.
    The plans are in French. There are quite a few cad drawings, lots of hand scetches, hundreds of photos and an unbelievable amount of information in a jumble of files. I have found it difficult to follow having to rely on Google which struggles with the colloquial French used. The hundreds of photos have descriptions imbedded in them but Google can't translate them well at all. I, and other English speaking builders have translated many of the main instructions for Serge Pennec, the designer but a majority of them remain in French. Most builders seem to take a few thousand hours to complete.
    Fantastic little aeroplane with remarkable performance and very economical. I'm expecting a cruise speed of 130 knots on 10 litres/hour using a Peugeot DV6 turbo diesel.
     
  12. Sep 9, 2019 #12

    simflyer

    simflyer

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    Maybe also okoume plywood could be replaced with thinner birch plywood - okoume 1.6mm by birch 1.2mm for same strenght.
     
  13. Sep 9, 2019 #13

    simflyer

    simflyer

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    Nice joke - Gaz'aile 2 name genesis don't mean twoseater :) btw Rather Gaz'aile 2, than MCR. Next could be SD2 - let me know, if interresting.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
  14. Sep 9, 2019 #14

    simflyer

    simflyer

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    Could be nice to know more about those automotive (moto) engines - weight, dimensions, consumption, pricing.
     
  15. Sep 9, 2019 #15

    stevetosh

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    Good morning Mate,

    Do you mind if I ask, where did you get the materials for the Ply and the Okoume ? Am from Toowoomba in Queensland and seriously considering building this plane.

    Steve
     
  16. Sep 9, 2019 #16

    Geraldc

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  17. Sep 10, 2019 #17

    VlJo

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    I have read that ocume has better surface than birch. So birch is plan B or C.

    Here is an outline chart that I found showing the differece between MC-100 and MCR 4S
    I was thinking if there is such upgrade for Gaz'aile, let call it Gaz'aile 4/5?
    P.S. MC-100 is 80h.p. MRC 4s is 100 h.p.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2019
  18. Sep 10, 2019 #18

    Markproa

    Markproa

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    I bought an unfinished project so didn't buy the materials. Mine is made of Hoop pine which is slightly heavier but stronger. The original builder bought his ply from Mr Plywood in Sydney but I don't think they do it anymore. It is difficult to find in the thicknesses required.
     
  19. Sep 11, 2019 #19

    sming

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    Hi, I can probably answer than one as I live in the same town as the designer. As we walked to the hangar when I bought my plans, he said something along these lines "Everybody keep pestering me with a 4 places aircraft but they all fly alone, this is b***s***. They should build a single seater, we could do a little screamer, it would do 300 km/h in cruise, easy"
    I kind of remember him saying he had some drawing for a single seat fuselage...

    As for the birch plywood, it's 30% heavier/stronger than okoume, so if you go down in thickness to compensate (like 1mm instead of 1.2mm), you will have problem with surface warping, especially on the wings. There is other places where it's not a concern though so you can swap, like in the fuselage...
     
  20. Sep 11, 2019 #20

    TFF

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    That’s when you tell the designer that the finance officer, wife, will only sign off on the deal if it is for family. That anyone else will get in it is not part of the financial deal. Single seats are hard for everyone to share at one time, and a big project usually requires a concession of some other projects to balance the scales. I only knew one person with a $10,000 dining room table, hard to balance dad’s $40,000 toy to what mom wants most of the time.
     
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