Mazda Rotary - what are the issues to be overcome?

Discussion in 'Mazda Rotary' started by RSD, Aug 30, 2019.

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  1. Nov 8, 2019 #101

    Billrsv4

    Billrsv4

    Billrsv4

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    The Powersport MKII Superlight. It weighed 167 pounds complete including dry sump pumps, ready to fly with everything except exhaust. Everything firewall forward installed weighed 210 pounds. Pacesetter wood prop. 208HP. I'm truly sad that the loss of Everett kept this from Experimental Aviation. It was a remarkable achevement.
    Bill[​IMG]
     
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  2. Nov 8, 2019 #102

    Neil Unger

    Neil Unger

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    george in Brisbane, You are either dead or you have given me a wrong telephone number Will try again today, My landline is 0268 653293 and if any hackers with to annoy me it is to be disconnected shortly. Neil.
     
  3. Nov 8, 2019 #103

    AIRCAB

    AIRCAB

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    BILLRSV4, thanks for that refresher. I am aware of your details. I was interested in someone that had a opinion on the 2 piece billet/cast iron end housings. I have also read lots of documents from DARPA in regards to to DET coatings, and other. I seems that testing was not that great. Just not enough of a market, with such a unique power plant.
    Thanks Again, Steve
     
  4. Nov 8, 2019 #104

    Billrsv4

    Billrsv4

    Billrsv4

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    Aircab,
    Most people stayed away from the 2, (or technically 3 if you consider the center housing) part systems since keeping the steel insert flat is the hard part. Don't forget that the rotary has enough flatness trouble to begin with since it has a hot and cold side. The side plates have lots of passages inside to route the water from the hot to the cold side to keep the temps more uniform. For long term use you must also consider the disimilar metals fretting on each other. Modern anti-freeze/coolant eliminates most electrolisis. Flatness of the insert is the biggest deal. Also the thickness of the plate is inversly proportional to the desired function. The thicker the plate the better for flatness, but the worse for weight savings. You are likely to be held to a periferal port also since the side ports are very hard to seal. P-port is really prefered for aircraft so that isn't a big negative. Unless you can fasten through the plate it can be hard to seal in general and the center is just as important since you don't want coolant leaking into your oil. Some people have had some success, but I am still unconvinced for a maximum output engine. Our engines aren't drag racers. They are like race cars on a track with an hour long straight-away. Before I would trust the multi-part sideplates I would get in LOTS of dyno or test stand time before ever commiting to flying behind one. Many folks do consider me very cautious though.
    Bill
     
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  5. Nov 8, 2019 #105

    Billrsv4

    Billrsv4

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    Aircab, You should look up the SAE paper Mazda did on the 26B engine development. They showed that the coatings they used actually wore better than the nitrided soft cast iron. Since Mazda has more successful experience with the Wankel rotary than anyone I would listen to them before any of the DARPA grant grabbers.
    Bill
     
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  6. Nov 9, 2019 #106

    AIRCAB

    AIRCAB

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    Bill, thanks, I will try and find that Mazda paper. While the 2 piece end plates from down under look good. They are developed for short term drag applications. I wonder if they have been used in the road racing circles?
    Steve
     
  7. Nov 9, 2019 #107

    Lendo

    Lendo

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    AIRCAB/Steve, No problem, Billrsv4 has a complete understanding of the Powersport History and you can take him on his word for anything he says - I do.
    Thanks for chiming-in Bill.
    George
     
  8. Nov 9, 2019 #108

    wsimpso1

    wsimpso1

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    When I was talking with Ev Hatch about this guy, I had really high hopes for it. I miss Ev Hatch.

    All peripheral ports, throttles in the inlet ports, laid on its side for low cowl line, really compact and low weight, Inconel duck calls in the exhaust ports to soften the exhaust note. Lots of really well done work to implement all of them. He did nice work.

    Billski
     
  9. Nov 9, 2019 #109

    AIRCAB

    AIRCAB

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    Billski, some close up pics of this SuperLite engine we posted on Lamars email group. I mentioned they looked like steel fab, got promptly smacked down for that. Wish I knew how they were built up!

    Steve
     
  10. Nov 9, 2019 #110

    Lendo

    Lendo

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    Neil Unger, I'm not dead yet! I should explain that the wife is concerned that the NBN Modem Router gets pretty hot if left on, so when we go out she insists we turn it off. I actually have a fan blowing on it when I'm home. As the phone is connected via NBN,the result is that it sounds like it's disconnected (which it is), however being it's built by HUAWEI I can't help but agree with her.
    George
     
  11. Nov 10, 2019 #111

    Billrsv4

    Billrsv4

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    Billski, I think Everett Hatch was a mechanical genius, and I'm not often impressed. He made the hard stuff look easy and was totally unafraid to take on any mechanical issue.
    T.O.Bill
     
  12. Nov 11, 2019 at 4:53 AM #112

    Billrsv4

    Billrsv4

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    Steve most of the Powersport engines used flame sprayed cermet on aluminum. The steel ones were cnc machined inside and then used a high temp braise in a fixture to close the half shells. Still had the fluid baffles but much thinner. Then machined and lapped them like the iron plates. May have used a fine double disk blanchard grind for parallelism.
    T.O.Bill
     
  13. Nov 11, 2019 at 4:57 AM #113

    Billrsv4

    Billrsv4

    Billrsv4

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    Steve, here is the SAE paper.
    Bill
     

    Attached Files:

  14. Nov 11, 2019 at 1:59 PM #114

    Urquiola

    Urquiola

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    About materials in RCE, for small engines it are described in the SAE papers 680572 H Keller (Sachs); 800974 A Adam (Syvaro); 821068 D Garside (Norton).
    Basically, housing and side plates are made of aluminum alloy including some Copper and some Silicium. Since patents by Mercedes and Citro├źn, working surface plating was done with Nikasil, an alloy of Nickel, (Aluminum?), Silicium, I'd say, but Suzuki used a different material, described in Canadian patents by Alfred P Grazen.

    The Suzuki RE-5 apex seals, same as last NSU engines, both had same rotor, were of Ferrotic, a mix of Iron, Titanium and Ceramic, showing the best seal life and the lesser working surface wear. Side seals were of IKA, same as piston rings in reciprocating engines.
    Early work evidenced better results with double side seals, but this was abandoned.
    I have no specific information about Mazda RCEs, besides they added an steel plate in the housing to which the working surface was flame-sprayed, or other way of plating, all this appears in the 1981 'Rotary Engine' book by Kenichi Yamamoto, a link to download it is in the Wikipedia Wankel Engine article, or in the Paul Lamar www.rotaryeng.net site.
    Salut +
     
  15. Nov 11, 2019 at 6:58 PM #115

    AIRCAB

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