Manned Multi-copter question

Discussion in 'Rules and Regulations / Flight Safety / Better Pil' started by bmcj, Nov 8, 2019.

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  1. Nov 9, 2019 #21

    FritzW

    FritzW

    FritzW

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    Yep, I totally missed the "power-off" part. Your right.

    It doesn't matter weather or not one has flown at OSH but the rules are clear: "power off" is "power off".
     
  2. Nov 9, 2019 #22

    Victor Bravo

    Victor Bravo

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    1) Insurance company doesn't understand it, so they don't cover it, so EAA can't do it... Sounds feasible.

    2) EAA asks FAA for an airshow waiver to cover their acro, fly-by's, warbirds, STOL competitions, ultralight demos, and other "stunt" flying. FAA doesn't know what to make of quad-copters, no idea what rules or parameters to set, so they tell EAA that they can't issue a waiver if they insist on flying a quad-copter. So EAA nixes the copters to keep the rest of the show. Sounds feasible.
     
  3. Nov 9, 2019 #23

    jedi

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    BB. Reply to post #20.

    Because there are not any operational maned quadcopters to display.

    Kitty Hawk did do a flying display about three years ago with their multicopter. See you tube. I got a nice free hat but very little technical info.

    Very difficult to determine the business plan. Could not make sense of everything. Lots of money spent. Not much to gain.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2019
  4. Nov 9, 2019 #24

    Jay Kempf

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    Most if not all multi-rotor designs have no auto-rotate function so have no glide or stall/min speed or min sink rate when the power delivery fails. So most rely on redundancy. I am not sure the FAA has authorized man carrying versions of things like this in any category except experimental R&D and only case by case. I don't know of any of the flying taxi projects that have flown past very early test flying restrictions. The project I know of has serious redundancy and had to prove a lot of control algorithm strategy and testing and last I knew was only allowed to be test flown over a very specific part of a body of water and not over any boats/humans/dwellings, etc...

    So maybe what the letter is saying is that it just doesn't comply with 103.1 and so it needs to be registered experimental r&d.

    There are a lot of projects at this particular boundary with the FAA. Electric airplanes are going through the same sort of category development. Still a lot to work out about safety of the batteries, how endurance with reserve is calculated, etc...
     
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  5. Nov 9, 2019 #25

    BBerson

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    Blackfly had two at Airventure but didn't fly and would not tell me why they won't fly it.
    SureFly didn't fly either. They set it up and spun the rotors....
    I went to Oshkosh to watch that?
     
  6. Nov 9, 2019 #26

    Victor Bravo

    Victor Bravo

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    Last edited: Nov 9, 2019
  7. Nov 9, 2019 #27

    Jay Kempf

    Jay Kempf

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    How are they flying the jet powered skate boards? Experimental R&D with an over unpopulated water restriction?

    There have been other multicopters flying but all registered somehow as experimental me thinks as they have been fairly large dollar well known company efforts. There is this whole trend of large software companies wanting to develop into aviation. Rich billionaires like airplane toys.
     
  8. Nov 9, 2019 #28

    BBerson

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    They promised a hover board at Airventure 2019. It didn't show up either.
    There was a jet powered FAR103 tailless wing that flew in the airshow. It met the specs and had FAA approval, I asked the pilot.
     
  9. Nov 9, 2019 #29

    Victor Bravo

    Victor Bravo

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    That aluminum Mitchell Wing ? I think I saw a photo or two of that one.
     
  10. Nov 9, 2019 #30

    BBerson

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    No, a composite and fabric design from Japan. Should be something at their website, I forgot the name.
     
  11. Nov 9, 2019 #31

    jedi

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    I think that was the lay on top cranked flying wing. Nice project.

    I thought the jet Mitchel wing that flew at Sun N Fun about 10 years ago was the wood version. I may be wrong.

    the Kitty Hawk flight mentioned in post #23 took place over water and was limited to 6 feet high. That may have been an FAA/EAA limitation. I have not seen N numbers on any of the quad copter/hoverboard flights. Perhaps the FAA is not interested or permits low altitude over water flights.
     
  12. Nov 9, 2019 #32

    Aerowerx

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    Myself, I would not want to go anywhere near a QUADcopter!.

    The reason is, if one drive system fails you loose all hope of a safe landing. I have mentioned this before. Sit in a chair, centered in the seat. Then have someone cut one of the legs off (with out you changing your position). What will happen?

    Now translate that to 1000 feet AGL, and one of your motors locks up?

    You need at least 5 rotors (Pentacopter???) to maintain any stability if one fails. Six would be better. Then you would also need 5 or 6 independent power and motor control systems.

    As an experiment, if any of you have a RC quadcopter, remove the blades from one of them and try flying it. Then report back, please.
     
  13. Nov 9, 2019 #33

    Jay Kempf

    Jay Kempf

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    Which is why you see all the real offerings with 8 or more smaller rotors on crossed diagonal redundant networks. Basically you have a motor failure and all the others compensate.
     
  14. Nov 10, 2019 #34

    Aerowerx

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    Exactly!
     

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