LS1 Engine for aircraft?

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TahoeTim

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When I used to test diesel generators at full load, the turbo housing and exhaust had the same red glow. I swear I could see the gasses passing through the manifold. Any metal will glow red above 1000 degrees, I don't see the point other than to make a point. Extracting that heat out of the cowling is the goal.
 

Toobuilder

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Speaking of heat - Here's the J-58 in burner:

J58_Afterburner.jpg

The turbine exhaust case would almost go transparent!
 

GrizzlyV6

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I was reading about the LS last night on HOT ROD mag and one of the first things said was that there are no standard fasteners on the LS engine. The pics aroung the block showed the bell housing flange that doesn't look like the standard bolt pattern we've come to know. Did I see this correctly?


Jim
 

4trade

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Lahti/Finland
When I used to test diesel generators at full load, the turbo housing and exhaust had the same red glow. I swear I could see the gasses passing through the manifold. Any metal will glow red above 1000 degrees, I don't see the point other than to make a point. Extracting that heat out of the cowling is the goal.
Here is excellent product, that keep radiating exhaust heat away from engine compartment. I can touch my friends Harley´s exhaust pipes at heads without burning my fingers: Thermo-Tec : Exhaust Insulating Wrap
 

Toobuilder

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... The pics aroung the block showed the bell housing flange that doesn't look like the standard bolt pattern we've come to know. Did I see this correctly?...

The bolt pattern is the same, save for one bolt near the top. Many people bolt older transmissions up to the LS and simply leave the bolt out. Not a great option for a redrive, but shows the similarity.
 

Toobuilder

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It's my understanding that the iron blocks can be drilled/tapped, but there is no structure for the aluminum engines (as shown). Some of the LS family do use the oil pan as a structural support for the bellhousing though. Helps to spread the load.
 

vecair

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Dec 12, 2012
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Prescott, AZ
Plenty of Chevy LS engines that put out 200hp at 2000rpm, look at the new LS378 which puts out up to 525 hp. Instead of rev limiting the engine use a throttle quadrant stop detent that would allow you to use 3000rpm normally but bypass for more power if needed in an emergency. Thats what we are doing with our conversions. Also if an engine is pulling a constant rpm say 2000 it doesn't matter if its in a car, truck, stationary generator or aircraft, its still pulling that load. A car on the road at 2000rpm is still pulling a mass if it were not it would be at 0 rpm, a aircraft is doing the same thing in cruise flight at 2000rpm, no difference. A prime mover does not know what it is pulling, it doesn't really matter as long as its capable of the job.

Cheers from the sky!

TGB
 

timberwolf8199

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...Also if an engine is pulling a constant rpm say 2000 it doesn't matter if its in a car, truck, stationary generator or aircraft, its still pulling that load. A car on the road at 2000rpm is still pulling a mass if it were not it would be at 0 rpm, a aircraft is doing the same thing in cruise flight at 2000rpm, no difference.....
That view is overly simplified to the point of inaccuracy.

A mass on a horizontal plane does not require the same power as one up an incline, nor the same amount as one moving down an incline. Likewise, a 3 ton vehicle shaped like a box truck generates more resistance than the same mass shaped like a corvette.

Your statement is correct in that if the load is the same, it cares not what it is mounted in. However, mass is far from the only criteria that generates the load it sees.
 

Toobuilder

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To put the "road" analogy in perspective, an airplane in cruise is less like a car on a flat road, and more like a motorhome pulling a trailer up a steep hill: Your foot is to the floor, and the hill never ends. Thats what an aircraft engine sees for most of its life
 

Jan Carlsson

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Just like on the waters, My father bought 1959 the first Swedish fishing boat made out of steel, from Holland, it had 2 straight Scania 8's of 10 liter. right from start the cam shaft bearings sized, several times, so technical persons from Scania joined them on a fishing tour, and sure the cam shaft bearings sized, the Scania people said we have to go to a harbour, but the fishermen said they have to catch fish first, so they took the bearing locks scratchy (if that is correct word)
off so the bearing rotated in the block instead of shaft in the bearing.


After that Scania Marin, changed there slogan from "on the ocean it is always downhill" to "on the ocean it is always uphill"
 
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ekimneirbo

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There isn't even a boss where the bolt used to go. This is a standard sbc/bbc bolt pattern? Hmmm?


The area where the bellhousing bolt would be has an oil passage right behind it. I suspect that GM felt that someone
might use the wrong length bolt and collapse the oil passageway. An aluminum piece could be welded into that area
if someone felt they needed the additional strength. Put a stud in it so the wrong length would not be an issue.....
or a riser bracket could be welded to the housing and bolted to the accessory bolt hole in the rear of the head.
 
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ekimneirbo

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That view is overly simplified to the point of inaccuracy.

A mass on a horizontal plane does not require the same power as one up an incline, nor the same amount as one moving down an incline. Likewise, a 3 ton vehicle shaped like a box truck generates more resistance than the same mass shaped like a corvette.

Your statement is correct in that if the load is the same, it cares not what it is mounted in. However, mass is far from the only criteria that generates the load it sees.
As you say, there are differences in the load an engine will see given the application. But to an engine, it matters not what is causing the load, only that there is a load..........kinda like the pound of feathers question.

I think some folks might find it interesting to read about how the builders of the "Light Sport" Carbon Cub have handled the horsepower equation for their airplane. While it has much more power than
most other light sport airplanes, I think it only uses 80 hp when cruising.............. That tells me it operates in a manner similar to an automobile when cruising down a highway. Its going to use more
when getting up to speed and less or none when coasting downhill/landing. Thats my perception of what an engine "sees" during the course of its operation. Semantics aside, it all boils down to
what is the lightest method to achive reliable power sufficient for ones needs......and do so for an acceptable monetary amount. Often, weight cannot be acceptably overcome by an airplanes flying
characteristics, so if usuable horsepower can be derived without the use of a reduction drive, I feel that is the best place to start the search for an engine.
 

Wagy59

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Farmers Branch, Texas
Good lord..You guys make me tired

Reply:Huh? So if my engine is running at 2200 rpm and meeting the needs of the moment, it will make a difference in whether its pulling an airplane or a truck?

Strictly speaking, it does: The analogy would be that the engine in an airplane , is subjected to the same kind of loading as pulling a truck up a steady incline, constantly.

It is not simply the RPM that matters, it is the BMEP developed. You can be be turning the engine at 2200 in neutral, 2200 going up a steep hill or 2200 going downhill. It's clear that it won't be subject to the same strain under all three conditions, even if the RPM's are the same.

A good reason to set up the engine to be a "towing" engine as far as cams and valves are concerned.
 

marketmerlin

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I won't get into the car engine debate.. I will say this. I have a 03 GMC with the 4.8L V-8 that I bought new and it has 158K miles and over 3800 hours on it now and never been touched. I set my cruse at 78-79 witch is about 2600rpm everywhere I go because all I run is interstate 70-80% of the time and get 23mpg out of a full sized 5600lb extended cab truck with about the same drag coefficient of a brick. If my math is right I get about 3.39gph out of my truck on average on the 2-3 hour drives in middle and east TN with the hills
 
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ekimneirbo

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Has anyone else noticed the inordinate amount of views this thread has generated? And it doesn't have as many replies as some other threads. There must be a sizeable number of people who have some interest in conversions, especially aluminum V8 conversions to generate that many views. Although I din't go to the trouble of verifying it, this is probably one of the top ten threads on the site.................
 

Hot Wings

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There must be a sizeable number of people who have some interest in conversions, especially aluminum V8 conversions to generate that many views. /QUOTE]

I'm one that has been following this thread with interest but have no real need for this class of power. The reason being that the basic cost of operating a plane, of any kind, has forced me down to the low Hp ranges so I have the option to fly more often, rather than faster.

Being able to building a direct drive V8 based engine for a whole lot less than Lycosaur (yet still be reasonably reliable) just might be justification enough to move up the food chain to a faster aircraft that that would actually be useful for travel with gear and a full fuel load. A $10k savings on a proven engine buys maybe 200 hours worth of fuel? That may not seem like a lot but once you consider that this would be a second plane that is only used for travel, 200 hours could be a decade of time for those of us that mainly fly for pleasure, but would like the option of serious travel without the hassle of renting.

There is a whole lot of potential here and a couple of proven examples may spur a whole new branch of experimental engine conversions. I suspect there are plenty more like me that are very interested in this line of engine development but just don't have the time or knowledge to offer anything constructive to the topic.
 

rv6ejguy

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Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Has anyone else noticed the inordinate amount of views this thread has generated? And it doesn't have as many replies as some other threads. There must be a sizeable number of people who have some interest in conversions, especially aluminum V8 conversions to generate that many views. Although I din't go to the trouble of verifying it, this is probably one of the top ten threads on the site.................
Most auto conversion threads generate a lot of views on any forum. People would love to see a low cost, reliable solution that they can easily get parts for and work on themselves. Others just like to watch people bash people experimenting with auto engines...
 
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