LS-3 Powered Velocity

Discussion in 'Chevy' started by rv6ejguy, Mar 27, 2019.

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  1. May 11, 2019 #61

    pfarber

    pfarber

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    "Some of the 2005 and later Subaru vehicle Engines (especially the turbo charged engines) are using CAN bus as their sole Vehicle/Vessel speed input channel. When those ABS Speed signal are removed, the ECU will force the Engine to run in limp home mode. This has posed some challenge for people who try to use the same automotive boxer and engines on Aerospace application, "

    This seems like an issue.

    Is running engines at the very low end of the power band causing excessive engine lugging and poor throttle response?
     
  2. May 11, 2019 #62

    TXFlyGuy

    TXFlyGuy

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    Back to the subject aircraft in this thread...is that a Ballistic PSRU? And please explain the pros and cons of running in a dual V4 arrangement.

    Any failure of the system will get you 50% of the engine. Where in a dual ECU powered V8 setup, a failure still leaves you with a fully functional V8.

    I must be missing something here.
     
  3. May 11, 2019 #63

    rv6ejguy

    rv6ejguy

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    You don't run the factory ECUs with these engines our you'll be in for a world of misery. They we're not designed for aviation. Many people have found out the hard way. We've sold around 500 ECUs for Subaru powered aircraft to date because of the unsuitability of the factory ECUs.
     
  4. May 12, 2019 #64

    pfarber

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    You make these claims of something being 'very bad' yet never follow through. What is wrong with a factory ECU? Or do you mean Subaru ECUs specifically? An ECU is, at it core, basically a very fast lookup table device. There are thousands more reprogrammed factory standalone ECUs in use so far I have not heard of massive failure rates.

    Do you mean environmentally? Please elaborate.
     
  5. May 12, 2019 #65

    TXFlyGuy

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    Ross can jump in here, and I hope he will. But it is my understanding that the "limp mode" an auto OEM ECU will employ after the failure of a critical sensor is the issue. The engine then will run, but not at a power setting that will allow you to continue flying. Better be looking for a place to land.

    It is also my understanding that these OEM units can be re-programmed if you get your hands on the proper codes. Not always an easy thing to do. The Hot Rod / Racing auto guys would know the answer.
     
  6. May 12, 2019 #66

    rv7charlie

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    Factory ecus have 10s (100s?) of thousands of lines of code, covering automotive situations we might never think of, when we're trying to use them in a completely alien environment. If you try to reprogram without the source code (which you'll never get), or 'wire around' stuff, you'll never know what you missed until it bites you. It's happened, and people have died. Want to roll the dice?
     
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  7. May 12, 2019 #67

    TXFlyGuy

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    That is why you always go with an aftermarket ECU. MoTeC, SDS, Link, are probably the top three choices. Note that both Link & MoTeC ECU's are from the land down under.

    Our choice was Link. The factory has been extremely supportive.
     
  8. May 12, 2019 #68

    rv6ejguy

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    Because you're not in this business, you haven't seen what I've seen. Charlie said it well. The ECU chassis tie-ins starting in the mid '90s are the main things that cause issues when you remove the ECU from the car and install in an aircraft which doesn't have most of the chassis sensors the ECU is looking for. Yes, there have been numerous engine outs, forced landings and crashes when people have used factory ECUs in aircraft. Some have been well thought out and work fine, generally pre- 1995 stuff. Most of these incidents have involved Subaru and GM because these are popular auto conversions. Some ECUs will shut off the fuel pump relay, injectors or ignition or initiate limp mode if the ECU sees high temps or failed sensor input (including many chassis sensors which are not present on the airplane).

    If you go back to some old Contact! magazine articles, you can find several where the problems and incidents have been discussed. I wrote a couple of those and several others who survived forced landings, cover their experiences also.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2019
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  9. May 12, 2019 #69

    pfarber

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    No, they don't BCMs, ABS, TCS etc do, but the ECU is really not doing a lot of anything.

    I googled some ECUs and found this spec:

    The Infinity ECU is built around a 200MHz, 32-bit automotive processor and Real Time Operating System (RTOS), which is capable of processing 400 million instructions per second.

    200Mhz is the clock speed, not the instruction speed. Some instructions may take 1, or multiple clock cycles to complete.

    Ever tinker with assembly? How about PICs? No? I have. They are not powerful, they are not fast, they don't like a lot of math. They do the job.

    As for 'getting the source code'. LOL if I had a dime for every keyboard l33t haxxor that said that I would be a jillion-aire.
     
  10. May 12, 2019 #70

    pfarber

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    Ok you simply are not current with your information. Do you even google before you post? I can find dozens of shops that will program a factory standalone ECU from a factory part.

    A car engine in an aircraft doesn't have all the sensors I need to run an ECU? LOL WUT.

    You really need to get up to speed with current offerings. PRE-1995?!!?!? What the actual??? No one here is talking pre-1995 anything. The LV3 is a 2015-ish motor. The LFX is also about 2015ish.

    You can't find a good all aluminum engine before 2010 save the LS series.

    I'm sorry but get up to speed and stop with the wayback time travel.
     
  11. May 12, 2019 #71

    TXFlyGuy

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    Like a good systems instructor we had at Braniff would always state when things were going downhill...

    "Don't tease the animals."
     
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  12. May 12, 2019 #72

    rv6ejguy

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    Not used on aircraft. We are not discussing car use here. Tell me what is your experience using factory car ECUs in aircraft? Is it all from Google?

    The point of pre-1995 is that is about when the ECUs became really complicated and intertwined heavily with chassis sensors. Now the complexity is staggering in that regard. Roll the dice if you think you know everything about this. Current ECUs run millions of lines of code. You think you need all that to run an engine? Seriously? You think you know how to turn off all the intertwined code that can cause trouble? Highly doubtful. Show me any post- 2015 auto conversion running the factory ECU with at least 300 flight hours on it.

    We're talking about past experience here in this field. You'll find current ECUs are way more challenging to integrate into an aircraft. This thread is about an LS-3 Velocity, not an LV-3. I know since I started the thread. I think you're confused about which thread you're on... This customer picked an SDS setup rather than the factory ECU after careful consideration and he knows a lot more about it than you do since he's actually done it.

    There are plenty of good all aluminum engines available prior to 2010. We've discussed many on this forum before and I have hundreds of customers actually flying them for years. You need to educate yourself more. Sounds from your posts that you can build the engine and ECU yourself. Go ahead and show us then. Why are you posting here asking for feedback?
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2019
  13. May 12, 2019 #73

    TXFlyGuy

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    With that being said, please help those of us who are curious about running two ECUs in a dual V4 arrangement.

    To be honest, the logic escapes me. Would not having an entire V8 be better than having a V4, after suffering an electrical related failure?

    Or maybe this is the latest way to go? Better / safer?
     
  14. May 12, 2019 #74

    Toobuilder

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    Pfarber- do you have the slightest comprehension of who you are so casually dismissing? Ross has overcome all of the mechanical and systems integration issues that you are just now starting to fumble around in the dark with. Auto conversion, Cooling, TV, redrives, and yes, ECU control. He's one of the few who have actually accomplished the process and now has a practical airplane. This, in an addition to manufacturing ECU's and EFI integration hardware for the past several decades.

    Considering he is THE auto conversion authority on this forum, do you think it wise to try "take him to school"?
     
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  15. May 12, 2019 #75

    pfarber

    pfarber

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    From his posts I can only assume his level of knowledge is not current. Everything he has posted about ECUs is wrong. Demonstrably so.

    I get that I'm the new guy, and I will heed advice from others.. but not blindly so.

    Engine ECUs are not magical boxes of unicorn tears. Its a low powered PIC with some IO circuits and lookup tables. Factory ECUs can be programmed for standalone mode. Programming services are easy to find. If not, for $400 you can get a standalone, programmable ECU.
     
  16. May 12, 2019 #76

    pfarber

    pfarber

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    Again, post half an answer. Would it kill you to list a few? I mean you're SME yet never answer a question.

    If you say the Old aluminum v8 be ready for the eye roll heard round the world.
     
  17. May 12, 2019 #77

    Toobuilder

    Toobuilder

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    And based on your other posts, Ross is likely to be your BEST FRIEND since he has long ago done the research, conducted endless experimentation, and integrated that knowledge into a practical solution.

    Don't insult the people who can help you the most
     
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  18. May 12, 2019 #78

    akwrencher

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    Dude, ( pfarber) stop being a troll. All the advice you have gotten so far is from those who have "been there, done that ". If you don't like it or think its wrong, fine. Go do it differently. That's why this is experimental aviation. That doesn't mean you need to be a jerk to those who have taken time out of there busy day to answer your questions. If you really think these guys are a bunch of dinosaurs, go build your system in your own and come back and show us how much better it is once it's done and proven. Talk is cheep.
     
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  19. May 12, 2019 #79

    Toobuilder

    Toobuilder

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    Are you intentionally passive agressive, or were you born that way?

    Ross has more patience with inane questions that I can comprehend. Same stuff over and over that 5 minutes of searching would answer, yet he keeps at it.

    You should consider backing the attitude down a few notches.
     
  20. May 12, 2019 #80

    BJC

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    Are you talking (posting) or are you doing?


    BJC
     
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