Lost Operating Limitations

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964SS

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Feb 13, 2014
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58
Location
Horton, MI, USA
I did something incredibly stupid. While doing my owner assisted condition inspection on my Pitts I pulled out the operating limitations to review and verify. Well I put them on my desk and started cleaning up for the night. I put a pile of papers on my desk to be thrown out. Guess what went into the trash and away with the garbage?!?!?
How painful of a process is it to get a new set? This plane was built in 1982. There is the log entry from the DAR and documentation of the flight testing?
Another reason I was reviewing them is because I am making a major change. New Catto 3 blade prop to replace the Sensenich metal 2 blade.

Thanks
 

TerryM76

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Sep 8, 2012
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Tempe, AZ
I did something incredibly stupid. While doing my owner assisted condition inspection on my Pitts I pulled out the operating limitations to review and verify. Well I put them on my desk and started cleaning up for the night. I put a pile of papers on my desk to be thrown out. Guess what went into the trash and away with the garbage?!?!?
How painful of a process is it to get a new set? This plane was built in 1982. There is the log entry from the DAR and documentation of the flight testing?
Another reason I was reviewing them is because I am making a major change. New Catto 3 blade prop to replace the Sensenich metal 2 blade.

Thanks
You could order a copy of the aircraft records from FAA Oklahoma. They send it as a CD and has all the information for your aircraft for paperwork they processed. I think it's $10.
 

Jim Chuk

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Mar 30, 2013
Messages
178
Location
Chisholm Mn USA
Here is an aircraft registration on the FAA website. I took a guess at this number and this plane showed up. Point being is if you look at the end of the last sentence in AIRWORTHNESS section, and just before the OTHER OWNERS NAMES section, you will find a link there. When you click on that link, another page opens where you can order your aircraft's records. Real simple actually. JImChuk

PS, this is the part I'm referring to:
AIRWORTHINESS
Type Certificate Data SheetNoneType Certificate HolderNone
Engine ManufacturerWRIGHTClassificationStandard
Engine Model760E-2CategoryNormal
A/W Date12/16/1975Exception CodeNo
The information contained in this record should be the most current Airworthiness information available in the historical aircraft record. However, this data alone does not provide the basis for a determination regarding the
airworthiness of an aircraft or the current aircraft configuration. For specific information, you may request a copy of the aircraft record at http://aircraft.faa.gov/e.gov/ND/
 

Deuelly

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Nov 6, 2012
Messages
368
Location
Marshall, MN
You will get new op. limitations for the prop change anyway.

Jack

Generally it doesn't happen that way. Usually you'll put it back in to phase 1 for 5 hours or so. After that you move back into phase 2 with a log entry. The operating limitations stay the same.

Brandon
 

Dana

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CT, USA
You will get new op. limitations for the prop change anyway.

Jack
Not correct. You may need new op lims, though. Many older op lims have language like "any major change invalidates the airworthiness certificate", in which case you would need updated limitations that allow major changes with a notification to the FSDO, 5 hours testing, and their approval of a test area. Even if you have the newer language, you still may need updated ones to get the test area moved to where the plane is now based. However, some older op lims are very unrestrictive, in which case you don't want to update them.

If you get new ones (ass opposed to a replacement) you're actually applying for a new airworthiness certificate, since the op lims are part of the AWC. The FSDO will probably want to see the logs and perhaps the plane itself.
 

BBerson

Light Plane Philosopher
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Dec 16, 2007
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15,978
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Port Townsend WA
You can get copy of the old operating limitations by ordering a copy of the complete aircraft data file from Oklahoma City.
We just got a copy here. I think it took only 9 months and $10.
 

Spezioman

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Aug 10, 2010
Messages
8
Location
Springfield WV. Based 1W3
My experience was this. The engine, IO320B1A, on my Acroduster 2 went south. I aquired a O290G which I converted to a O320, added Bendix FI etc ending up with what I called a O290/IO320 frankengine. I was told by the Baltimore FSDO that the install of another IO320 was NOT a major change. BUT that my intent to go from a metal propeller to wood was a major change. Therefore I was issued a new AWC and new Op. Limit(with 5 hours phase 1). No choice, new everything for a "major" change/new propeller. Didn't matter in my case. Original AWC/op limits were issued in 2015 and new ones were almost the same..

I do agree that if you have old unrestrictive op limits it would be nice to keep them but I suspect that the new prop(major change) will get you new everything. The local FSDO's are "supposed" to be playing to the same music as told by hopa-hopa city......

YMMV

Jack
 
Last edited:

Dana

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This is from a Kitplanes article I wrote a couple of years ago:

The experimental operating limitations originally issued for my plane said, “Any major modification to this aircraft as defined by FAR 21.93 invalidates the special airworthiness certificate.” Part 21.93, in the FAA’s typically backward language states that “a ‘minor change’ is one that has no appreciable effect on the weight, balance, structural strength, reliability, operational characteristics, or other characteristics affecting the airworthiness of the product. All other changes are ‘major changes’”. A propeller change could certainly have an “appreciable effect” on the operational characteristics of the aircraft! However, the standard template used for new operating limitations today uses different language: “After incorporating a major changed as described in 21.93, the aircraft owner is required to reestablish compliance with 91.319(b) and notify the geographically responsible FSDO of the location of the proposed test area…The aircraft must remain in flight test for a minimum of 5 hours. Following satisfactory completion of the required number of flight hours in the flight test area, the pilot must certify in the records that the aircraft has been shown to comply…”
I had already applied for and received a new airworthiness certificate and updated operating limitations a few months earlier, partly in anticipation of the propeller change but also to return the plane to the phase 1 test period to make aerobatics legal (during phase 2, only those aerobatic maneuvers that were logged during phase 1 may be performed, and the original builder never did so). The new limitations also specified a new test area around my own home field, since the builder had lived in a different state. I completed the aerobatics testing earlier in the year; for the prop change I only had to notify the FAA of the change and receive their concurrence on the [same] test area.​
 
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