Looking at Sandlin Goat.

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jedi

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The Goat isn't an ultralight, it's a hang glider. I've never heard of one with an engine, but there must be at least one out there which would make it an ultralight.

A hang glider is an Ultralight Glider. Read part 103. Ultralights can be powered or unpowered.

I would be happy to discuss training options in detail. PM a name and phone number.
 

Bille Floyd

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And here's my favorite Goat video:
...

That was in December 22, 2009, Floyd was going to let me fly it
so we tied it from the nose and I ground flew it to see if there were
going to be any problems first. My Fake feet would slip off the rudder
pedals, and i would have No clue it was about to happen.That would
be a major problem on landing ; so we Decided to get some
Velcro to make my feet stick to the pedals ; before ever attempting
to fly it in the future.

Bille
 
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Bille Floyd

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A hang glider is an Ultralight Glider. Read part 103. Ultralights can be powered or unpowered.

...

That is correct ; but max weight for an unpowered ultralight glider is 155Lb, with
no pilot
and the powered ultralight , (with no pilot) is 254Lb.

Bille
 
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myself2

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That was in December 22, 2009, Floyd was going to let me fly it
so we tied it from the nose and I ground flew it to see if there were
going to be any problems first. My Fake feet would slip off the rudder
pedals, and i would have No clue it was about to happen.That would
be a major problem on landing ; so we Decided to get some
Velcro to make my feet stick to the pedals ; before ever attempting
to fly it in the future.

Bille
That Velcro story is a classic, thanks for sharing it.
 

jedi

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That is correct ; but max weight for an unpowered ultralight glider is 155Lb, with
no pilot
and the powered ultralight , (with no pilot) is 254Lb.

Bille

That is correct!

That allows 99 pounds for the engine instillation. Airframe weight is where the weight issue is likely to need attention. 155 pound is a "Heavy" foot launch. 254 pounds is a near impossible foot launch so landing gear comes into both the weight and launch issue when adding an engine even without considering propeller clearance issues.

A Mitchel B-2 is a tad over 100 pounds unpowered. Other rigid wings are in the ball park.
 

Dana

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The Goat isn't an ultralight, it's a hang glider. I've never heard of one with an engine, but there must be at least one out there which would make it an ultralight.
The Goat is NOT a hang glider as the pilot doesn't "hang" from it. As Jedi pointed out it is an ultralight, as are hang gliders and paragliders.

Motorised versions are commonly called "motorfloaters"; Mike Sandlin's Bloop is a good example.
 

BJC

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The Goat is NOT a hang glider as the pilot doesn't "hang" from it. As Jedi pointed out it is an ultralight, as are hang gliders and paragliders.

Motorised versions are commonly called "motorfloaters"; Mike Sandlin's Bloop is a good example.
Get an N- number for it, and it becomes an airplane. Like some people, it can be whatever it identifies itself as.


BJC
 

romeodz

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Knoxville, TN
The other day I downloaded "technical drawings" for the Sandlin Goat ultralight glider. I thought that this would make a good first project due to low build time/inexpensive materials. I was wondering what pointers you might be able to give me. I also was wondering what kind of training to look for in order to be able to fly this aircraft. Would standard ultralight training be best or should I go for something more like a hang gliding course? I'm in SE Idaho but willing to go to parts of Utah/Wyoming, so if you know of a good instructor, I'm open to suggestions.


Do you have a link to the plans?

Thanks
 

Aesquire

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Rochester, NY, USA
A tandem ( towed up ) hang glider flight will give you a good feel for the speed and performance, but not the flight controls. Sailplane lessons will help with the basic stick controls ( the Goat is different ) but be faster/heavier/more claustrophobic than the Goat.

Both approaches should give similar knowledge on how to Soar, which is a SKILL set you need to get past sled runs and the slog of hauling everything back up the hill.

Hang glider training in general, the classic, ground handling to short flights & landings near the bottom of the hill, moving up the slope & adding turns, etc. is useful for the unusual flight operations area compared to "regular airplanes", a Low & Slow regime your typical Cessna pilot can't safely fly in. Plus the tricks/technique for ground handling in wind, another skill different than regular planes.

Otoh... ;) Sailplane training and the licence offers a different track for advancement, the possibility for Motorglider endorsement, to fly a whole class of craft a hang glider rating doesn't offer.

Ideally you want to at least sample both. ABSOLUTELY get at least an introductory flight lesson in either, preferably both, BEFORE making a decision on building. You WILL discover you have preferences after getting some air time. ( some people just don't like being exposed and the sensory experience of either. )

For a Goat pilot, check out hang glider tow operations locally. Even if hang gliding isn't your choice, the tow alternative means a lot more chances for flight, than mountain slope launch. I've spent hundreds of hours on top of mountains all over the Eastern states waiting for conditions to improve. Towing, while it Absolutely adds a level of skill and risk, frees you from dependence on the wind being right in both direction and magnitude for the specific hill you fly from. ( I've driven from hill to hill seeking flyable winds....soooo many times )

The HARDEST part of hang gliding is driving several hours, hauling gear up a mountain, setting up, doing preflight, then ( the Real Hard Part ) making the decision to fold up & not fly, today. Walking up the training hill is just exercise with fun parts, soaring for hours is joy, even building a glider is a challenge of skill building and material rewards. Making the Judgment call to Not fly is the not fun thing.
 

Victor Bravo

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myself2, for whatever my opinion is worth start building your GOAT immediately and work on getting some training along the way. I also am fortunate enough to know Floyd and Doug Fronius just a little. They are both very experienced hang glider and glider and ultralight pilots.

The GOAT is half "hang glider" and half "glider". You would be very much better off by getting a little experience in two different types of flying machines. Our fellow HBA participant Jedi has a lot more experience with some of these things than I do, but I think he'd back me up on this:

The first thing you need to do is get 5 or 6 hours of training in a traditional ultralight, a 2 seat Quicksilver, Maxair Drifter, etc. Learn how to be comfortable flying in the open, with nothing around you.

Then find your nearest glider club or glider school, and get some instruction in the Schweizer 2-33 (or 2-22 if they still have one of those old dinosaurs). The comment above about the slick fiberglass 2 seat gliders is 100% correct, those gliders (Grob, AS-K21) will not really prepare you for the GOAT. What you get from the glider training is the confidence of making the landing without the sound of the engine or the chance to go around. At least in the glider schools in America, the beloved old T-bird is the most common glider that's draggy, clunky, slow roll response, and lighter/slower than the newfangled glass ships.

Then, learn how to fly old-school radio controlled model gliders, and practice "slope soaring" on a ridge or cliff, playing back and forth in the updrafts and such. What you're getting from that experience is building an instinctual feel for the interplay between the wind, the slope, exchanging potential energy for kinetic energy and how that all gets mixed up between upwind and downwind turns. You're learning the hard way why you don't turn the glider toward the slope at low speed, when you can and can't get away with it, and building an instinctual feel for how much total energy (and airflow control) is being put into and removed form the aircraft during all of the maneuvering and wind/slope interplay. That split-second instinct will save your life a hundred times (I'm talking from a reasonable amount of experience).

The model airplanes will build that instinct the easy way (broken Balsa wood instead of broken bones)... the learning process for slope soaring does in fact require quite a few busted wingtips. So I'm telling you to break pieces of styrofoam or wood instead of pieces of aluminum and flesh.

I know this all sounds like very "new age snowflake-ish" and "holistic Kombucha balance-y wellness" nonsense... but I do believe the other guys here who have done a lot of slope and ridge flying in HG's and light gliders will agree with me that the strange combination of these skills will very well prepare you for the GOAT.

(And... full disclosure... one of these skills/experiences is something I do not have much of (the open-air, butt cheeks out in the wind UL flying), and I regret the price I paid. I had rebuilt a Kolb Firestar ultralight into an off-road-ish STOL machine, and was white-knuckle pucker-factored when I got above 500 feet, because it was the first time it felt like I could fall out over the side. I never stuck with it long enough to get over that, which I now regret very much.)
 
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