# Lilium - Point to point small air transport reinvigorated?

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#### henryk

##### Well-Known Member
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#### anvegger

HBA Supporter
The domain name was purchased back in August 2017 for $4,100 and the site was registered privately right after that. I agree that most of the videos and photos look like montage sometimes with crucial mismatches like that : Where is the trike's wheels? No address no references to the manufacturing or design objectives. very strange organization came from nowhere #### bmcj ##### Well-Known Member HBA Supporter And Boeing announced a$2 million prize yesterday. For personal flight device or something.
what kind of in ovation are they hoping for? The way I see it, hovering dynamics is a known science, batteries and electric motors are what they are, and GPS navigation and automation is pretty standard. Everyone is working from the same bag of tricks. The only real variable is collision avoidance.

Innovation is. Or going to come from designing an air taxi... everyone will have similarly comparable vehicles. True innovation will come from advances in batteries and motors (mostly batteries). In other words, component advances. Battery/motor research is where that 2 million dollars should be targeted.

#### BBerson

##### Light Plane Philosopher
HBA Supporter
I just scanned the proposal quickly, so can't comment. The issue I think is safety standards. No standards exist for personal VTOL fail safe backup as far as I know.
The regulators will require something.

#### Topaz

##### Super Moderator
Staff member
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... The issue I think is safety standards. No standards exist for personal VTOL fail safe backup as far as I know.
The regulators will require something.
Which is going to be the death of the whole thing. We don't have "fail safe" backups on any kind of flying machine now. What's the "fail safe backup" on a Boeing 777, for heaven's sake? I agree that the regulators are going to demand this sort of nonsense, because that's the sort of bureaucracy-heavy world we live in today, but it's just more weight and complexity layered onto a class of vehicles that are already heavy and complicated. The only "reasonable" safety technology is redundancy in the lift system. Anything else - including BRS for this purpose - has a "dead zone" near the ground where a failure will produce a serious crash. Redundancy in the lift system means a lot of extra weight and a big extra drain on the batteries; and batteries are already the weak point in these machines.

I agree with BMCJ - Boeing's money is far better spent on battery technology than re-inventing the powered-lift vehicle. Between the work done in the 1950's and the modern work done with "drones" and their automated flight controls, the airframe and lift-system part have already matured. We're just waiting on "good enough" energy storage. Of course, \$2 Million is chump change in aerospace development today, which means this "initiative" from Boeing is more of a PR move than a serious exercise in developing "personal" VTOL technology.

#### bmcj

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
what kind of in ovation are they hoping for? The way I see it, hovering dynamics is a known science, batteries and electric motors are what they are, and GPS navigation and automation is pretty standard. Everyone is working from the same bag of tricks. The only real variable is collision avoidance.

Innovation is. Or going to come from designing an air taxi... everyone will have similarly comparable vehicles. True innovation will come from advances in batteries and motors (mostly batteries). In other words, component advances. Battery/motor research is where that 2 million dollars should be targeted.
Oops! Forgive the small-screen typing errors, but I think you can figure out what I meant despite the autocorrect errors.

#### BBerson

##### Light Plane Philosopher
HBA Supporter
Yeah, took me a while to figure what "ovation" they were going for...

Almost no one has seriously trusted their life to this yet. So numerous methods of getting killed have yet to be explored.
And almost certainly they will have autonomous collision avoidance. The standard for that hasn't been accepted yet either.

And the standard for electric aircraft doesn't exist yet. EA-B is open, but can't run an air taxi on EA-B.

#### anvegger

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
A bit of an update information from yesterday's AVWEB.COM:

A two-seat autonomous aircraft with 16 electric rotors flew for the first time in May, and carried passengers on board for several flights in early September, the company recently announced. The “PassengerDrone” aircraft, built in Switzerland, looks similar to a Volocopter, but with its rotors placed along two straight booms instead of Volocopter’s circular rotor array.

#### anvegger

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
And today we have some news from Dubai - A cross between a drone and a motorcycle, the Hoversurf can seat a police officer or be controlled remotely Dubai Police are taking crime-fighting into the future as they unveiled their latest innovations on the first day of Gitex Technology Week on Sunday. The Hoversurf, a cross between a drone and motorcycle, can seat a police officer or be controlled remotely. Four large propellers flank its corners allowing it to fly at a height of 5 metres if mounted and 6km without a rider.It can fly for up to 25 minutes when battery charged and almost an hour when traditionally fuelled. The Hoversurf "bike" can also carry an additional 300kg and flies at a speed of 70kmh.

#### tspear

##### Well-Known Member
And today we have some news from Dubai - A cross between a drone and a motorcycle, the Hoversurf can seat a police officer or be controlled remotely Dubai Police are taking crime-fighting into the future as they unveiled their latest innovations on the first day of Gitex Technology Week on Sunday. The Hoversurf, a cross between a drone and motorcycle, can seat a police officer or be controlled remotely. Four large propellers flank its corners allowing it to fly at a height of 5 metres if mounted and 6km without a rider.It can fly for up to 25 minutes when battery charged and almost an hour when traditionally fuelled. The Hoversurf "bike" can also carry an additional 300kg and flies at a speed of 70kmh.

View attachment 66360
That looks like it will take out someones likes, likely the pilot flying the thing.

Tim

#### Tiger Tim

##### Well-Known Member
That looks like it will take out someones likes, likely the pilot flying the thing.

Tim
It looks like a movie prop. I would think it needs more motors for redundancy, I believe the magic number is six as a minimum though you could keep the same configuration as in the pic if you went with eight, just arrange them to push/pull at each corner.

#### BBerson

##### Light Plane Philosopher
HBA Supporter
Maybe the purpose is to fly one meter above the traffic?

#### Victor Bravo

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
It looks like a movie prop.
Now you're catching on.

~ "Movie props" are to fool the movie audience into thinking that the device or vehicle is real.

~ Notice the stereotypical Arab investor in the background of the photo?

~ Connect the dots

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#### flyboy2160

##### Well-Known Member
..and the infallible, omnipotent, cloud-based software that will control this unmanned air traffic will be called....Skynet

#### anvegger

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
I'll be impressed when they can make this happen:

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#### anvegger

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
But one more step has been taken even beyond

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