Lightweight compact diesel engine , 4 strokes

Discussion in 'Firewall Forward / Props / Fuel system' started by altifly, May 5, 2013.

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  1. Jul 18, 2019 #41

    FarmBoy

    FarmBoy

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    Looks like the LLNL testing was delayed quite a bit but a report will finally be available next year

    "GoTek Energy, Inc. Testing completion will be done by the end of 2019 and we would expect results to be published in early 2020 by the lab/DOE."

    Can't wait to see what the engine is really capable of. Since the testing will be done at a national lab, any data that isn't published should be available to the public upon request. Hopefully the report will be detailed enough (knowing LLNL, it may even be too detailed for the layman).

    Looks like Achates power has been busy as well - working on an opposed piston gasoline engine in addition to the diesel:
    http://achatespower.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/Achates-Power-OPES_Achates-Power_Redon.pdf

    http://achatespower.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Achates-Power-SIA-2017-paper.pdf

    The 2.7L model looks interesting from an aviation perspective (yes the Achates are 2 stroke and not 4 stroke but actually have better BSFC/BTE {~183/46%} and lower emissions). They are supposed to be lighter than standard diesels and as the drivetrain RPM is lower than the (dual) crank RPMs, a PSRU would not be required, saving a few pounds. 270 HP from 2.7L isn't shabby either.
     
  2. Jul 18, 2019 #42

    Billrsv4

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    FarmBoy, I don't know why LLNL has gotten involved with this test. Not that it is a bad thing, it is just that this engine isn't anything new. The Achates version is, but opposed piston 2 stroke diesels are as old as the hills and twice as dusty. They are efficient engines with several of them among the best BSFC recorded. It may be that modern materials and metalurgy has made them viable again. Fairbanks Morse used this arraingment on train engines which were very efficient. They didn't make their way into cars because the double crankshaft was heavy and more costly to produce. If the weight can be held down it would make a good aircraft engine. Note that it is being tried by at least 2 firms. DAir in the U.K. and there is a similar effort in the US, though they might have failed called Gemini. The AeroDiesel engine was small around 100 HP and has actually flown. Their website went dormant though and I don't know the status of their project. Gemini has struggled to get funding also. Both should be a decent aero engine, but often that is the last thing these new manufacturers need to worry about. The generally sluggish sales of general aviation aircraft doesn't entice the builders to take chances on new engines. Certification can also take years and huge cash outlays. I hope Achates has success. You can find many examples of these engines by searching "opposed piston diesel" or "blowdown diesel" a term used to describe them since they didn't totally syncronize the cranks to allow the mixture to "blowdown" the cylinders to exhaust ports on one end. I hope someone can resurect this tech and provide us with a good new aero engine choice.
    T.O.Bill
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2019
  3. Jul 18, 2019 #43

    mm4440

    mm4440

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    http://www.weslake.eu/ The company that designed some of the opposed piston Diesel engines you mentioned. I have seen video of their 80 hp mounted on a Mercury outboard bottom end. Runs great. The aircraft market is so small it is hard to justify the expense and risk of a new engine program. And batteries are getting better soon. Right?
     
  4. Jul 19, 2019 #44

    FarmBoy

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    Apologies for the confusion, the LLNL testing is for the lightweight rotary engine from GoTek Energy - its really small for its capability, weighs less than 100lbs. and should be putting out well in excess of 200HP (I think the HP numbers will surprise a lot of people). But the things I am most interested in from the upcoming report are efficiency numbers and data regarding wear and reliability.

    Some pictures to see the size:
    http://www.peoplemediagroup.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Engine-on-Test-Bench.jpg
    https://www.pacbiztimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/17GoTekWEB.jpg
    http://www.peoplemediagroup.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/GoTeK-Execs-at-2013-PortTech-LA-Expo.jpg


    With regards to Achates, the reference doesn't really belong here as they are heaver/higher HP though it looks like there will be a number of engines going into cars and trucks in the near future so there may be a nearer term option for the experimental market if the size and weight savings they have been advertising made it all the way through to production. The tech is scale-able though and there appear to be opposed piston gas compression ignition engine in the works (i.e. they received a DARPA grant).

    [​IMG]
    http://newsletter.motor.com/2018/20180320/ID3_PerformanceCurve_AchatesPower.jpg
    "The Achates Power 2.7L 3-cylinder Opposed-Piston engine is rated at 270 hp and 480 ft.-lb. of torque. The Ford F-150 pickup demonstrator, equipped with the OP GCI engine, achieves a combined 37 mpg, exceeding the proposed CAFE 2025 regulation."

    If the mpg numbers are real (i.e. 37mpg in an F150!) and they solved their wrist pin wear issue (which it looks like they did several years ago) I think we will be seeing a LOT of these engines in the near future in a number of vehicles. Unless batteries increase in capacity and get cheaper, engines like this will be bridging the gap for the greater marketplace for quite a few years.
     
  5. Jul 20, 2019 #45

    REVAN

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    Instead of derating the engine to turn a larger prop, direct drive a 36" to 40" diameter propfan at full power. I've often thought the concept of the unducted propfan would go great with experimental aircraft.

    At 4800 RPM, the propfan tip speeds would be in the 0.7 to 0.75 Mach range depending on the diameter. This is right in the proper range for the propfan concept, and it would look awesome. It would be particularly great on pusher designs like the Long-EZ and Berkut, as the prop clearance would be improved on takeoff rotation.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propfan
     
  6. Jul 20, 2019 #46

    Grelly

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  7. Jul 20, 2019 #47

    BJC

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    I went to the Zoche site, since I have been seeing their name for a long time. This info there:
    Availability
    As with any leading edge technology, precise schedules are difficult to predict. We expect to ship the first production engines one year after Engine Type Certification. The 300 and 150 hp aero-diesels will be first on the market, to be followed by the 70 hp ZO 03A.

    BJC
     
  8. Jul 20, 2019 #48

    Bill-Higdon

    Bill-Higdon

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    One of the bigger opposed piston diesels was Napier Deltec, the US Nave used them in the PBF Nasty's
     
  9. Jul 21, 2019 #49

    sotaro

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    Has that changed in the past decade? I seem to recall some sort of boiler plate language to that effect long ago.
     
  10. Jul 21, 2019 #50

    BJC

    BJC

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    It probably has not changes in the past decade.

    Their specification sheet says “ ... we are developing ...”. The sheet is dated over ten years ago.


    BJC
     
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  11. Aug 8, 2019 #51

    EzyBuildWing

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    NEW Diesel Aircraft Engine from China:
    4-cylinder, opposed, Liquid-cooled.
    150 HP continuous at 4000RPM.
    Turbo and intercooler.
    Integral gear-reduction.
    98 kg. dry.
    2000hr TBO.
    Check it out here: http://haerypower.com/en/info.asp?base_id=2&second_id=2002

    Looks ideal for a single-seat Sports-helicopter, such as the Hungarocopter shown on this Youtube vid.
    Note: this heli has electric-prespin and "electric-rescue" system fitted:
     
  12. Aug 8, 2019 #52

    BJC

    BJC

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    I didn't find a price or anything to show that the engine is in service.

    Is it available?

    What experience does it have in flight?

    What does it cost?

    Thanks,


    BJC
     
  13. Aug 8, 2019 #53

    rv6ejguy

    rv6ejguy

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    Any examples actually run 2000 hours yet to establish that TBO?

    It's a long road to travel from prototypes to full scale production and long term parts and service support on a wide scale. Most new engines fail right there, no matter how good they might be.

    How many folks will buy an relatively unproven engine from and unknown company with unknown resources and unknown long term support?
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2019
  14. Aug 14, 2019 #54

    Hephaestus

    Hephaestus

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    What ever happened with the 899cc smartcar diesel conversions?

    they were 80/100hp and 200lbs if I recall.
     
  15. Aug 14, 2019 #55

    BJC

    BJC

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    People were embarrassed to be seen in them?


    BJC
     
  16. Aug 14, 2019 #56

    Hephaestus

    Hephaestus

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    Kinda works for the initial purchase price for the conversion to aero ;)

    I noticed there's a few diesel smarts around me for sale on FB for cheap. Then I vaguely remembered the talk back when they were first released about the conversions.
     
  17. Aug 14, 2019 #57

    litespeed

    litespeed

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    A small diesel could be great to sip fuel and push a big prop.

    And given the diesel gate stuff for emissions- I reckon the motors will get cheaper as millions of diesels get scrapped over time.
     

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