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Legal question about copyright

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Bigshu

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I think Hugo Junkers patented the flying wing in 1910...so it must have expired by now.

I have been in many dire situations where my innovations have been sorta "recycled" in several cases where I was always the loosing partisipant. Possibly my flooding phase in aeroplane designs was one of the heeling projects for me.

Anyway architectural competitions, wind turbines and aeroplanes and other vehicles are always constantly in heavy competiton and a small individual in the compression of big companies and states even can do very little to protect himself.

FBI has notissed this phenomena: https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/208135.pdf

Certainly a spitting image of someone else's design is naturally a sign of a similar thinking and a permission is good to ask to go on....like you did.
One of the developments that always puzzled me was how Piper and Beechcraft came up with the Tomahawk and Skipper, which could be clones. From completely different design departments.
 

Pilot-34

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My personal opinion is if they have quit building a model they have abandoned it and Anyone that wants to should be able to build one or a couple hundred
 

cheapracer

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My personal opinion is if they have quit building a model they have abandoned it and Anyone that wants to should be able to build one or a couple hundred
You have no hope on a design patent, they are issued and good for 20 years, and that's that. You need permission from the IPR holder to use it.

So first thing you do is to do a search, see when it expires or expired, and plan from there.

There are cunning people who watch out for new things that come onto the market, then they check if there's a patent for it, find the owner, buy it for cheap, then sue the new manufacturer - usually after some time to build up the royalties due. So copy at your own risk.
 

Pilot-34

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... irrelevant in law.


BJC
Not at all that is both the way laws get changed and the reason we have juries.

One reason for discussing things like that in an open forum like this to change public opinion till the weight of the public opinion forces a change in the law.
 

pfarber

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This is the biggest single untruth about IPR going, you see it posted all over social media, and it is absolutely not true.

The owner of a patent is the sole rightful owner of that design, and by building one for yourself, you are denying their right to profit from their design.

There is a difference between lore and law.
But a patent rarely covers the entire 'thing' like an airplane. You could have a flap mechanism patent, but not the wing. Even new airliner wings are not patented (shape, performance) but the process and materials to make it (say a specific process to cure epoxy with specific characteristics) is.

So yes, you can build 'a thing', becuase most large 'things' are not patented.
 

Pilot-34

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You can patent a process ?
For instance if I Had a huge well and a giant bucket on a rope that went around a generator pulley to a spring I could fill the bucket with water till descended into the well generating electricity.
When it got to the bottom it would spill the water out water would drain into the ground in the bucket would go back up to repeat

Now the key thing to this is there’s no new item to it ,buckets,altenaters ,ropes,wells are all long established things.

Can I actually patent the process?
 

Pilot-34

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Lol I think that’s the reverse.
But what I really wanted to know is if you can patent a process that doesn’t incorporate new machines just uses old ones in a innovative way ?
 

TFF

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Your bucket example would have to produce something new. If it returned a cheese sandwich every time it dumped a bucket, yes. If you are trying to capitalize on an everyday process, no.
 

Turd Ferguson

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Let's say that I want to build an exact replica of a plane no longer in production,
Legally speaking am I allowed to do it?
If that's what I wanted to do I would just build it and worrying about copyright police showing up at my shop would be pretty far down the list of things to worry about.

For a reality check, by the time you add a starter, battery, electrical system, avionics, shoulder harness and other niceties that we expect in airplanes today, it will probably gain 2-300 lbs, which will erase any performance advantage over more modern 4 place light planes.
 

Dana

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You can patent a process ?
For instance if I Had a huge well and a giant bucket on a rope that went around a generator pulley to a spring I could fill the bucket with water till descended into the well generating electricity.
When it got to the bottom it would spill the water out water would drain into the ground in the bucket would go back up to repeat

Now the key thing to this is there’s no new item to it ,buckets,altenaters ,ropes,wells are all long established things.

Can I actually patent the process?
You can patent a new arrangement of existing components, providing the new arrangement is novel, useful, and non obvious.
 

rv7charlie

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TFF,
See my linked 'one click' example, above. Nothing new whatsoever was produced; arguably (by rational persons; not lawyers), there wasn't even a new 'process'. Yet Amazon obtained a patent, and successfully defended the core stipulations of the patent.

For a more random example, see this, somewhat related to Dana's post. Though the 'novel' and 'non-obvious' categories are missing.

I submit that the answer to 'What can I patent?' is: 'How good a patent lawyer can you afford?'
 

pictsidhe

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This is the biggest single untruth about IPR going, you see it posted all over social media, and it is absolutely not true.

The owner of a patent is the sole rightful owner of that design, and by building one for yourself, you are denying their right to profit from their design.

There is a difference between lore and law.
I knew this was total nonsense, so I googled it. Turns out that it's only partly nonsense...
It varies by country. In the UK and most of Europe, you are permitted to build a patented item for personal use. The reasoning being that single items are of neglible loss to a patent holder. In the USA, you can not build for personal use. Hence a LOT of confusion. There is difference between law and lore 😉 I don't know about other countries, but ones that used to be pink tend to follow British law.

In every country, you are allowed to build an item for research purposes. The courts are pretty strict about the interpretation of that.

The reality is that if you aren't selling something, you'll usually get away with a single item. Lawyers are expensive. You can bet that Space-X would be upset with someone copying a single rocket, even for research, though.
 
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Pilot-34

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Your bucket example would have to produce something new. If it returned a cheese sandwich every time it dumped a bucket, yes. If you are trying to capitalize on an everyday process, no.
Lol I think it’s a pretty novel way to store electricity
 

Pilot-34

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Yes of course but I didn’t have time to actually invent something new simply too clearly illustrate a question.

On the other hand I don’t think I have seen a lot of bucket generators
 
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