Konig SC 430 3 cylinder Radial

[raytol]

Yep Bille Floyd i certainly feel for you. Verner also used to make a lovely 4 cylinder horizontally opposed 4 stroke motor.
Whatever happened to that? Was it called the VM something?

 

[James Gyore]

Yep Bille Floyd i certainly feel for you. Verner also used to make a lovely 4 cylinder horizontally opposed 4 stroke motor.
Whatever happened to that? Was it called the VM something?

Two models in fact, VM133 and JCV360. Both were 2 cylinder engines. Both engine designs were sold off to communist occupied china.

 

[David L. Downey]

Two models in fact, VM133 and JCV360. Both were 2 cylinder engines. Both engine designs were sold off to communist occupied china.

And that is probably why the verniers are unwilling to provide any information on exactly which Aprilia bike engine the 360 was derived from for spares. The JCC360 is a lovely engine - I have one - but not crazy about putting a lot of installation work into something with no future...

 

[David L. Downey]

And that is probably why the verniers are unwilling to provide any information on exactly which Aprilia bike engine the 360 was derived from for spares. The JCC360 is a lovely engine - I have one - but not crazy about putting a lot of installation work into something with no future...

...Verners...JCV360...

 

[billyvray]

I'm 90% sure the cylinders used came from an Aprilia Scarabeo 200cc scooter engine.

 

[David L. Downey]

I'm 90% sure the cylinders used came from an Aprilia Scarabeo 200cc scooter engine.

That is very useful!
Thanks!

 

[AdrianS]

Two models in fact, VM133 and JCV360. Both were 2 cylinder engines. Both engine designs were sold off to communist occupied china.

Why do you keep calling China "communist occupied"?

They are communist, sure, but it's not like the communists came from somewhere else and invaded China.

 

[jedi]

Bill

It kinda sucks, to say this , but : if i had Not-of gotten married
to that woman ; I would have already bin flying my Rigid wing
with the Thore 202.

Turns out that i Like flying , more than i like girls ; is that
Weird ? For now , I gotta do gliders ; cause i can't afford
the engine i need.

Bille

Bille, You have my sincere sympathy.

So sorry that you married the wrong woman. I turned down the one that promised to buy me a plane.

The woman I married got me the best aviation job I ever had.

I lost the job 19 years ago but the woman has stuck around for the last 53 years. If she lasts thru April. The next annual inspection will be just around the corner.

 

[James Gyore]

Why do you keep calling China "communist occupied"?

They are communist, sure, but it's not like the communists came from somewhere else and invaded China.

Because the feckless chinese didn’t just wake up one morning and vote en mass for communism. It was violently forced onto them in the aftermath of WWII.

The legitimate democratically elected government of China fled to the island of Taiwan.

Fast forward 8 decades and we have a communist occupied china and the prosperous democratic nation-state of Taiwan. Why do you need a history lesson?

 

[AdrianS]

I clearly don't need any "history" lessons from you.

Back to aircraft engines.

 

[bmcj]

I don’t think our end of aviation offers enough market size to convince them to restart production, but if you could convince them that there is enough market if they target Homebuilts/ultralights AND drones (military or otherwise), they might reconsider.

 

[Urquiola]

I'm interested in a Radial Engine, Air Cooled, 90 HP class, to power a replica of first La Cierva Autogiro, some people in AAE, Spanish equivalent to EAA, is building.
Originally, it had a Rotary Engine (not a Wankel, of course) Hints? Links?

Verner Motor - Home

www.vernermotor.com

Thanks. Blessings +

 

[TiPi]

I'm 90% sure the cylinders used came from an Aprilia Scarabeo 200cc scooter engine.

The Aprilia parts (cylinder&head) are good. The rest of the engine is having problems:
2 engines in Germany failed the reduction drive (1 lost the prop and flange, the other lost drive to the output).
The electrics are atrocious, 24V starter with a 12/24 switch unit and 2x 12V batteries. No parts available, grounding many engines permanently.
The JCV360 also has specs that do not reflect the use in aircraft eg max power is at 7,800rpm, max continuous is only 6,000rpm. If the prop is pitched for 75% power at 6,000rpm or below, it becomes a 30-32hp engine, not a 35hp.

 

[TiPi]

Changes to make:

Magnesium crankcase, Switch to
Use bing type carburation.
10mm bore spark ignition plugs.
Increase stroke to 48mm for sub
500cc.
Reasonably low particle emission.

The 2-stroke market is shrinking, thanks to Government legislation. Similar to the outboard market, 2-strokes will gradually be banned from more and more applications. Garden equipment is next, then aircraft.

 

[johnnyd5]

One of these , came up for sale on Ebay . I contacted the seller
to inquire of it's hours . I was really interested ; so i tracked down
the new owner of it's design ; wanted to see about rebuild parts .
A company in China , purchased the design rights and they replied
that they have few parts , and are out of production, for many years.

I replied that their company should reconsider bringing this engine
back into production ; it's power to weight will sit perfectly into a
lot of pilots mission's. I also suggested they increase the stroke a bit
to slow down the rpm ; thus making a 25-hp engine, with tuns of torque
and it would spin a slightly larger prop, making it more efficient.

The original Konig on Ebay ; it makes 25 hp , and weighs 37-Lb ,with it's E-start.

Thoughts ; was i out of line , with that suggestion ?

Bille

I am trying to find the specifications, or drawings of the mounting of this engine, can someone help?

 

[Yellowhammer]

Why do you keep calling China "communist occupied"?

They are communist, sure, but it's not like the communists came from somewhere else and invaded China.

Because it s. Communism never stands the test of time.

-YH

 

[mm4440]

Of course they would say that - they were selling them and there was no patent-able feature of the overall design. My guess is they bought cylinders, pistons and rods straight from Stihl.
The crank looks to be a typical pressed together 2 stroke built up crank. 3 rod journals at 120 deg and all cylinders fire at once.

It kinda sucks, to say this , but : if i had Not-of gotten married
to that woman ; I would have already bin flying my Rigid wing
with the Thore 202.

Turns out that i Like flying , more than i like girls ; is that
Weird ? For now , I gotta do gliders ; cause i can't afford
the engine i need.

Bille

There are two sealing discs between the rods on the single crank pin and it fires every 120 degrees.

 

[PMD]

A little off topic, but I guess in keeping with the rest of the thread:

I think what happened (based on working in and with China for a bit over 25 years) is that Beijing issued the marching orders to scoop up genav and aviation companies and technology in general. That filters down to the provinces, cities, banks and companies and for a long time (as communication is seldom direct from CPC central planning) everyone and anyone could get both cash and score brownie points by buying aviation stuff/companies. Superior, Continental, Diamond, Austro, Mooney, Cirrus....the list just goes on. Just because you have the cash and opportunity doesn't in any way mean you have the skills and access to markets (thus why buying the whole company and keeping it operating seems to be the current model). China doesn't understand our marketplace and we don't understand much at all about China, so there is little chance of some great breakthrough in little, very low volume aircraft engines from there.

 

[TFF]

China wants the products but can’t free up the infrastructure to use it. They don’t want 300,000 people flying around where they want to go. Their mind would melt.

At worst someone flying across the US has to make an airport 300 miles to find safety if they have a problem. Usually less than 60 miles. China airport system is major city to major city. They are all 600-1000 miles from each other over mountains. How would you like to make every flight somewhere like crossing the Atlantic? They don’t have the infrastructure to handle small airplanes. City to city doesn’t have roads sometimes.

They would prefer to shuttle people. They want Greyhound for the air. What they want is turbine powered DC3s.

They bought up all these weak companies compared to what they were use to. They knew they were not going to buy Boeing what’s the difference with Mooney? Cities bought them for the revenue they thought they could generate. That’s the way the economic structure works there. They buy and expect the money to roll in. As expensive as aviation is, it’s also the lowest profit margin of any business out there. The bad part is the people who do these deals heads are literally on chopping blocks if they fail.

 

[PMD]

I would hardly call Continental, Cirrus, Diamond and Austro "weak" companies.