Just talking about VWs

Discussion in 'Volkswagen' started by Pops, Mar 12, 2018.

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  1. Mar 12, 2018 #1

    Pops

    Pops

    Pops

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    I flew the first 32 hrs on the SSSC Koala with a 1200 cc, 40 Hp, VW engine. Paid $40 for a rebuildable engine. I wanted more power than the 40 HP. I was getting about 600 FPM ROC at redline of 3600 on climb. Cruise at about 3150/3200 at 65 mph. With my 230 lbs the little engine was running harder than I liked, so I went to the 1835 cc, 60 HP VW engine. ROC with to 1200+ at 3050 rpm with a cruise of 80 mph at 2650/2700 rpm. A lot easier on the engine. Picture of the 40 HP engine.

    Also picture of the 1835 cc, 60 HP engine.

    A few months ago I bought a 1965, 1200 cc, 40 HP engine for $25, and another 1966, 1300 cc, 50 HP engine for $25. The 40 Hp engine had a broken piston and a slightly bent rod on #2. Took it apart and took the parts to a local VW engine parts store and machine shop and had everything checked out and bought all new parts to overhaul it. Everything showed no wear, case, crank, 3 of the rods measured new. Also bought a new rod, and all new parts, bearings, gaskets, etc, and put the case together this week. Don't know what I'll use it on yet, maybe a VW trike or a VW powered pipe buggie for the back logging trails where I live. I built one in the 1970's and ran it on the road for several years, lots of fun, then the state started requiring a safety sticker with fender, windshield, wipers, etc, etc, so that ended that. Now I need to rebuild the heads with all new parts.
    Pictures of the case of the 1965 , 40 HP engine.

    There is still a lot of VW engines out there if you look. A 1835cc, 60 HP for the V-Max would be a fun airplane.
     

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  2. Mar 12, 2018 #2

    don january

    don january

    don january

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    Pops I took a industrial VW engine (1600 cc) from a melro spray coupe and mounted it my Vw trike and it has been a great dependable engine. Its seems that up here in the Dakotas the old field spray coupes are sitting in every other farm yard. I made most of my money back by hauling the remainder of the coupe's to the scrap yard. Unlike Corvairs you can still by new blocks and to me that's a big plus. It was rather amazing that both coupe's sat for over two years not being started and after a good carb cleaning and valve adjustment they fired right up. One thing I like most about the engine on my Trike is being it's air cooled I have no worry's of my block freezing because the antifreeze is too weak. Those German designers did a great job on that little critter. :beer:
     
  3. Mar 12, 2018 #3

    fly2kads

    fly2kads

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    That 40 horse motor would still work well for something lightweight like a Druine Turbulent or a Jodel D9. I wonder if anyone else has done a new installation of a 40 into an airplane recently? Old school cool.

    I like the baffle set-up on your 1835, getting air down through the cylinder heads. Did you install cool tins underneath the cylinders, and if so, does the back side of your baffling wrap downward to them to seal off the aft end?

    Here are the two VW motors occupying my workspace at the moment:
    fly2kads_VW_stash.jpg
    The one on the left is an F-case 1300 motor that I am going to rebuild for the 1966 Beetle that I am restoring. I picked it up cheap after a local guy pulled it out of his Bug so he could install some monster stroker motor. I have a collection of spares for the 1300 as well. On the right is the 1600 that came with my project car. The PO had it built up from new parts, but it was never installed in the car. Since I am using the one year only 1300 in my Beetle, I am thinking this one will wind up in an airplane down the road.
     
  4. Mar 12, 2018 #4

    Hephaestus

    Hephaestus

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    I really want to learn aviation vdubs sometime. But nearly a mile high, I've never heard of anyone local running one at least not on a 2 place...

    Can you turbo normalize without a massive weight penalty?
     
  5. Mar 12, 2018 #5

    Pops

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    Yep, used the VW GPU lower baffles and the rear of the top baffles wrap downward to the aft end for a good seal.
    I'm going to use the slip in oversize 83 mm pistons and jugs on the 40 hp to make it a 45 hp. If I build the VW trike, that will be enough power with good mileage and if I build a pipe buggie I have a 2180 I could put in it if I need more power.
    The 1200 cc, 40 HP has the max torque at a lower rpm than the 1600 cc engine, which is good at the rpm's used with a prop.

    I have owned many, many bugs from 1956 to 1974 but one bug has me puzzled. I had a green 1966 that I drove to work for many years and I can't remember what happen to that car. Did I park it some where and forgot about it ? :) Wish my wife would remember what happen to it because I can't. Sold my last bug about 2 years ago, it was a 1968 bug on a box frame with a 1962 , 215 ci, Buick aluminum block V-8 of 200 hp.
     
  6. Mar 12, 2018 #6

    TFF

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    I don't really think that's a bug without an air cooled engine? I know of a friend with a story of one with a Chevy V8 that the first time it got punched, it wheelied and flipped on its lid. The guy drug it on its lid into the garage. I had a friend with a drag"bug" with a Mazda rotary. It was a 10 second car all day long. It was light in the front with fiberglass everything. You could pick up the front without much effort.
    I think most of the old planes benefit from bigger engines. 1200s and 1300s were really a dime a dozen when the original VW planes were designed, and the 1600s came out. All the old VW planes used them because they were meant to be cheap like using a Lycoming G engine. Today without some devine luck, any size engine will be close in cost today unless going crazy. VWs are big around here. The guy that use to own the best hobby shop in town along with a cousin of my mom and an A&P teacher I know have a good chunk of nice VWs. There is a club in town. Not quiet as bad as California. I just almost bought a Devin VW project owned by this family of odd car repair. It was just too much project and it's not like I don't have car projects already. I do love Devin body cars though.
     
  7. Mar 12, 2018 #7

    Dana

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    I got to really like the simplicity and low cost of VW engines when I had the half VW on my Fisher. In a perfect world I'd have a Stolp V-Star (the lighter VW powered version of the Starduster) instead of worrying about rebuild costs for the O-290 in my plane.

    A friend replaced the VW engine in his Westfalia with a Subaru engine, even with the throttle limited it can now get up to alarming speeds. I've often thought I'd like to have a Meyers Manx dune buggy (built on a VW chassis for those who aren't familiar with them), always liked the look of them ever since having a Cox dune buggy when I was a kid.
     
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  8. Mar 12, 2018 #8

    pictsidhe

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    Porsche air cooled engines are the hip way to hotrod a bug in Europe.
     
  9. Mar 12, 2018 #9

    Pops

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    I built a couple very quick VW bug street cars. Make the kids with the Mustangs and Cameros put there tails between there legs and go home. One was a 1969 and another was a 1964 on a late model pan. Also had a 1957 baja with did very well and it was on a late model pan. Built a couple pipe buggies that would carry the front wheels and were a lot of fun. My 1969 street VW was mod to handle like a go-cart on the road. Didn't have a windward tray in the engine and in a curve it would pull enough "G" that it would unport the oil pickup and the oil pressure would fluctuate. Sold used VW bugs only for several years along with the side business of building engines. Grew fast and had to decide to keep my day job. Worked for VW of America for 8 years.
    Local friend of mine has a 1974 VW Bug ragtop on a box frame with a Chevy 383 engine. Looks factory done.

    For flying a single place homebuilt on a budget, a VW engine is hard to beat. Can do a MOH for $500 at todays prices. Friend of mine just bought the plans for the Fisher Super Koala a few weeks ago and has the tail surfaces built and starting on the fuselage. Will be VW powered. Talking about building a 2180 with no electrics.
     
  10. Mar 12, 2018 #10

    Vigilant1

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    There's a lot of fun to be had in all kinds of vehicles at 60HP and less.

    A somewhat related question:
    The smaller VWs have a strong reputation for reliability and low maintenance costs. There's no doubt that as we ask more from them (e.g. 2180ccs and up, 75HP and up, higher CHTs, etc) we are starting to bump up against the edge of the envelope. I don't have numbers, but I'd guess most Sonexes, Sonnerei, etc probably get about 200-300 hours before the head needs to be pulled (for a valve job, a crack, etc). Now, that's not terrible (about 4-5 years of flying for most recreational fliers, and the parts to do the work run about $1-2 per flight hour--not bad by airplane standards). But if we built a 2180cc engine and only asked it to give us 50HP except for a minute or so on takeoff, how much would we expect the situation to change? (That's probably how a Beetlemaster would be run by most folks. Even if the RPM would be high at cruise, the MAP would be very low and the engines would be loafing). Would the 2180cc mill be as reliable as a smaller displacement VW giving the same power? If the engine is stroked, then piston speed will be higher at the same RPM, but the RPM >won't< be the same for the big engine, it will be lower. About the only place I can think that the big engines might still have trouble in these low HP scenarios is the cylinder head, specifically the smaller amount of "meat" between the valve seats with these larger engines and valves (with resulting higher potential for cracks). But, if we are running at modest CHTs, cracks and valve trouble are lot less likely. As we've discussed elsewhere, our fairly low RPM airplane engines (approx 3400 max) don't need the bigger valves in these these street-racing heads (5000+ RPM), but the commercially available bigger heads (with large fins) are built for these racers, so they have them anyway. It would be great if we could get a purpose-built "for airplanes especially" VW head at a reasonable price. At lower displacements, they'd be single-port heads (as Pops has pointed out, these can work great).
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2018
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  11. Mar 12, 2018 #11

    Pops

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    I agree 100 %. Build the bigger engine and put it in an airframe that doesn't required but about 1/2 of the HP that the engine can produce. Cool running, at low mp for a long lasting , reliable VW engine. Don't need the dual port heads with the big valve and the cracking problems between the valve seat area and spark plug hole. Below 3K rpm the dual port heads cost you torque. On the SSSC, in cruise of 2650/2700 rpm the 60 hp, 1835 cc engine is just developing about 34 hp at 80 mph.
    I need to finish building my 2180 flywheel drive VW engine. Have the flywheel drive and engine mount parts made. Also have a set of single port heads that is drilled for dual ignition. No one sales a mag drive for the pulley end of the engine so will have to make my own. I have about 1/2 of the parts made for the mag drive. Then the lower spark plugs will be fired from the used of the distributor location. Great Plains makes an ignition for this that is 1.5" tall. The engine will be non-electric. How am I going to run the second ignition if it will be non-electric ? Thought you would ask. Been making a circuit that will turn on the second ignition after the mag stops firing for .5 seconds and run off the 12volt 7 amp, jell-cell model airplane starting battery that I use to power the handheld radio and gps. That will get me to an airport with a mag failure.
    https://aapistons.com/collections/c...-of-stock-head-single-port-w-seats-and-guides
    http://vwparts.aircooled.net/SearchResults.asp?Search=single+port+heads
     
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  12. Mar 13, 2018 #12

    fly2kads

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    Pops, are you making a bed mount for that flywheel drive engine? I have seen the drawings and photos on the late Bob Hoover's blog for the bed mount he made. I think the automatic cutover system for the ignition is very clever.

    One of the nice things about the VW ecosystem is that it is very open and varied. We have several vendors selling a variety of sizes and styles of engines. The aftermarket parts support is such that you can pursue your own ideas, as well, just as Pops is doing. Tons of choices and options for customization.

    I have my own ideas for a high displacement, low-revving VW-based motor, as well. I'd like to experiment with that, too, someday.
     
  13. Mar 13, 2018 #13

    Pops

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    Using Bob Hoover's plans for the bed mount and also the prop hub. I cut the center out of a flywheel for the prop hub to the end of the crank.
     
  14. Mar 13, 2018 #14

    BBerson

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    VW exhaust valve seats corrode and only last about 5 years. I am not sure why my Honda car goes 30 years and the VW doesn't.
    I was thinking the lack of a long exhaust pipe might let moisture get to the valves.
     
  15. Mar 13, 2018 #15

    fly2kads

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    I read (on the Sonerai forum, I think) of someone putting desiccant plugs into the ends of their short stacks for this reason. I have not heard if this resolved their problem.
     
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  16. Mar 13, 2018 #16

    BBerson

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    I think the VW valve seat might be cheaper metal. Lycs and Contintentals last for decades.
    When the valves are new it starts easy and has good compression. If it sets for a month the valves rust a bit and gets harder to start. But after a run in it seems to clean the valves.
    I don't know any solution other than running it almost every day. Which is difficult.
     
  17. Mar 13, 2018 #17

    cluttonfred

    cluttonfred

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    I have heard of oily rags in the exhaust stubs also intended to keep air and condensation from getting inside the cold engine.
     
  18. Mar 13, 2018 #18

    BBerson

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    Spray some fogging oil in the stubs and then plug the rags.
    If it has a muffler, a steel tube could be welded in for fogging.
     
  19. Mar 13, 2018 #19

    Pops

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    I have never had a problem with valve seats, but I always make sure my CHT's are down where they should be. Bet the problem is from high heat and not moisture. I have over a million miles driving VW bugs and always check the valve adjustment at 10K and when used on an airplane I check at the 25 hour oil change and record to catch a trend. Had one burnt valve in my life on my first VW bug auto after not checking the valve lash after about 60K.
    One thing that I have always done is put MM oil in the fuel. Maybe the reason I never had any valve seat problems. Put it in for valve guide lube. Same for the small cont's, never had a sticky valve.
     
  20. Mar 13, 2018 #20

    Vigilant1

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    Heck, you're on the WA coast, it's practically a Rustoleum test chamber!

    I, too, wonder if, in the case of the exhaust valve seats, it's not the heat as much as the moisture. Those VW valve seats are getting a lot hotter than the Honda exhaust seats surrounded by that nice water-cooled head. Heat is a big factor in increasing metallic oxidation.
     
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