Jungster 1 & 2 aircraft

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Mike von S.

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Feb 4, 2021
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167
Ooooh do it! I like that livery, go a Verner 7cyl with floats you have plenty of clearance for a long prop.
How far into your Flitzer are you? Do you have a build log here?
Love to see pics.
Floats are soooo much fun,
Verner 7 is too much for the little Goblin. A builder in Canada is building one (not on floats) with a Verner 5. Should be plenty. I am building a 2110 flywheel drive VW for mine. Fun to think about someday retrofitting my Goblin for floats (I have a summer cottage on a lake), but first I am eager to get mine flying. Working on axle, wheels, hubs and brakes (dual bicycle disc brakes) now. My builder's log is hosted by the EAA at

 

flitzerpilot

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Apr 19, 2017
Messages
421
Location
Hirwaun, Aberdare, S.Wales, UK.
Fighting 14, Dominic and Mike. I did consider a Z-1 on floats back in 1998 shortly after BellAeromarine had built the second prototype, G-FLIZ. The landplane performance was so encouraging with the 1834cc VW (@ 60 hp.) that a floatplane seemed more than a likely next step. Bell intended to build a Flitzer Z-1W Wasser for the Boat Show at Olympia, their core product being sailing dinghies, and had commenced construction when the company found itself in serious financial difficulty and went into administration.

G-FLIZ was sold (it now flies in the Netherlands as PH-TOT) and some jigs and parts survived which I still have. About ten years ago I designed a steel-fuselage single-seat floatplane around a 9-cylinder Rotec radial, in the style of a Japanese attack seaplane for a keen builder in Australia. Unfortunately he had a financial setback and the project was abandoned. It was called an E3-Y1 Kamikaze-Katsu (Victory for the Divine Wind) so I expect that insurance problems might have arisen due to the name!

I have some large scale drawings of the fuselage details and the cockpit layout although wings and tailplane exist only as pencil drawings. I will see if the former are on my computer archive; if not I'll photograph them for you and BJC, who wanted to see some of my projected designs. Even today, surrounded by Flitzer bits, I look at some of my ideas, including a scaled-down Albatros D.ll and think, maybe, for an upright Aeromomentum. The Katsu would be even better with the Verner 9 though, in my view.
 

Fighting 14

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Sep 18, 2021
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374
Thanks for sharing Mike. Nice work!! Flitzerpilot, boy would I'd love to see what you have for drawings of the E3-Y1 Kamikaze-Katsu. Sounds very intriguing. Somehow I have gotten on this hydro racer kick. I pulled up a few pics and I can only say, "Dom, pick your poison". Maybe a Lake Wakatipu Hydro-Racer contest like the Schneider Cup scaled down a might. Check out these pics! I see some where the Verner could be used. Dom, I can see you in the Sopwith. The Sopwith looks very Flitzeresqe. I like it! What's the mood towards floats on Wakatipu? Is the water too choppy? The Kiwi WWI airplane guys have had a pretty fair success, so why not re-create some of the early hydro-racers also? I should not have asked why not. Hold those thoughts. 😉. Best Regards, F-14 88-1.jpg this-short-crusader-was-the-american-entrant-for-the-1927-schneider-B5E18B.jpg cc6c57d0137b48ba20bd27e9f719b9d4.jpg 12-calshot-29_orig.jpg
 

flitzerpilot

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421
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Hirwaun, Aberdare, S.Wales, UK.
Fighting 14 and Co,

Thanks for posting those pictures of the Sopwith Schneider, Short Crusader, Supermarine S.5, Macchis, etc. All firm favourites of mine. Balancing the Sopwith without access to a heavy engine or use of an exceptional amount of ballast forward would be impossible and probabl;y the float noses forward of the front strut leg, would need to be ballasted too. The Schneider used the 450 hp. Cosmos Jupiter and its landplane evolution, the Rainbow, was fitted first with the problematic 320 hp ABC Dragonfly and then the much better 500 hp. Jupiter ll, all weighty motors as evidenced by the short nose. Ballasting would be necessary -but what a fabulous aeroplane! Of course, building it full-size, you could make use of a bigger existing radial than the Verner or Rotec engines, which might simplfy things, but at great cost.

The Short Crusader is a magnificent looking beast, sadly fatally lost due I think to either incorrectly-rigged ailerons or flutter. I have the data on file but need time to look.

The replica S.5 was designed by the late Ray Hilborne, who also designed the DuCros Spitfire and performed the stressing on my Flitzer prototype. It was lost in a fatal crash when flown by Bill Hosie Sr. after the rudder and I think the fin departed in flight. It was reported that it had been moored without a control lock on the rudder which thrashed about in strong wind for hours prior to the accident. A few years ago I was approached by Bill Hosie Jr. who asked if I could re-draw the very damaged plans in order to restore or build from new, the remains of the salvaged prototype. I feIt that I would have to design from scratch the tailgroup attachment, the design of which was unclear from the remaining drawings and some of the remainder of the aeroplane and ultimately had to decline. Happily, some further drawings were discovered and at the same time the damaged sheets were immaculately restored using a specialised computer/laser system, enabling an experienced team to continue with the build, some of whom were involved with the original prototype.

For the moment I attach some drawings of the E3-Y1 Kamikaze-Katsu, although most of these are incomplete as seen here. The main elevation and fuselage plan view was completed after this sheet presented here was photographed. Other part-designs and separate drawings exist in various stages of completion. I include a side view of the Yokosho 2-go E6Y1 variant for ref.

I'll send some other inter-war landplane fighter design images next.

Banzai!
 

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flitzerpilot

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Apr 19, 2017
Messages
421
Location
Hirwaun, Aberdare, S.Wales, UK.
For landplane inter-war fighters, the basic Flitzer design was always intended to be transmutable into something other than a pure sportsplane, visually, including air-racers. Some 'Japanese' types are shown here, converted by Photoshop into credible post-WW1 types, but retain Flitzer geometry and mass distribution. The Lairds and Stormcock demonstrate how later Flitzer evolutions mostly have reduced height cabanes, more aft-located cockpits and thus improved cockpit view.
 

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Fighting 14

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Sep 18, 2021
Messages
374
Fabulous!! Thanks so much for sharing. I'd love to see more!! Yes the Sopwith would need to be smaller and the engine moved forward. Those early floats would benefit from a step. I wonder how the Sopwith flew? All I found about it was that picture. Keep the info coming. Thanks again.
 

flitzerpilot

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Apr 19, 2017
Messages
421
Location
Hirwaun, Aberdare, S.Wales, UK.
Dominic and Fighting 14, here are impressions of the Z-2 Seeschwalbe and the Z-21 Wasser. Also the first 'conversion', JT-1 to Yak 9, the Tigerfalk (plan view), Stormcocks and ski-plane flying! The civilianised Siskin is another inter-war machine embodying some mods for balance at reduced scale.

Still looking for the SAI 403, BJC.
 

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flitzerpilot

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421
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Hirwaun, Aberdare, S.Wales, UK.
I built the Tigerfalk to 50% completion but then was persuaded to let someone have the Salmson radial to keep his Sopwith Pup flyable that kept throwing pots from the installed Le Rhone. Because my brother had performed the test flying on that Pup, (described in 'Airborne', now published by Crecy) I agreed, provided the engine was re-sold to me at the same low price if the builder failed use it. As I suspected, the Salmson was underpowered for the Pup, but the owner sold the engine on to another party. So I shelved the Tigerfalk and continued with the Flitzer, being a much simpler aeroplane and capable of a good performance on modest power (VW).

I gave the Tigerfalk to Jim Cresswell, who had admired the aeroplane since seeing a 1/4 scale R/C model of it in a magazine when he was a teenager. He'd subsequently built a beautiful Z-21A (G-ERDA), repaired the damaged Z-1R (ZIRA) and bought the crash-damaged Z-1S (G-ECVZ), so he had somewhat cornered the marked it Williams' biplanes, and deserved the KFZ-1 as I had no room for it.

The Flitzer Laird LC-1W is presently in my workshop but it can equally be completed as a Stormcock or an Sz-1 at this point, as I have tailgroups completed for all these types and modifying the wings for unequal length (for the LC-1W) and wingtips shapes, etc. is a simple matter. Mike von S. is still keen on the Laird design and I have come up with a 'John Deere' colour scheme for his, but I have been slow to complete the working drawings, I'm sorry to say, although they exist in pencil form. I became sidetracked with the Sperry Messenger design for the UK's SSDR (deregulated cat.) but that stalled due to Verner cancelling the small radial series, my having intended to use the 3V. Now I am committed to a 60 hp. VW for this project, even though I may mock-up radial cylinders to camouflage it, either as an exposed radial or within the 'speed ring' as on the Szarka SZ-1.
 

Fighting 14

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Sep 18, 2021
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374
Very interesting. Dom must be busy paragliding or he would be enthusiastically chiming in. When you have drawings of the Laird I'd love to see them. Any photos of the Tigerfalk?

I am busy woking on a low pressure boost pump setup for the Jungster. I spoke to a friend of mine who built a Jungster also. He related how his, on it's maiden flight, vapor locked and quit at the hold short line prior to getting airborne. A boost pump makes a world of sense, especially operating at high altitude. I have my fuel line and gascolator shielded with fireguard and have added stainless steel heat shields to the left side exhaust which is closest to the fuel line. A low 5 psi fuel pump in parallel with a check valve, and located in the cockpit and powered by a dedicated battery seem to be where I am headed. Cheers!
 

flitzerpilot

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Apr 19, 2017
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Hirwaun, Aberdare, S.Wales, UK.
I have some close-up photographs of the basic airframe which I will send from my other computer archive. Meanwhile, here are pictures of the 1/4 scale R/C model of the Tigerfalk from 1988, held by builder Pete McDermott, the then scale R/C champion.

It featured 'advanced ailerons' and for this type he coined the phrase 'Stalls like a Pussycat: Snaps like a Pitts'.
 

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Fighting 14

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Yep. Too bad we have an expiration date! I just watched the You Tube video on the Flitzer Laird Construction.

Super interesting!! Flitzerpilot, do you mind if I post the link or you can?
 

flitzerpilot

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Flighting 14, your Navy N3N-3 is absolutely stunning. Yes, I do like engine-turned aluminium, but perhaps not where it's over done. We are used to seeing The Spirit of St. Louis with a full engine-turned nose and cowlings and that's an icon. Equally a classic American Eagle comes to mind. But on the Flitzer family, I've used it exclusively on the instrument panel to avoid dazzle and glare when flying down-sun in late evening, and on the heel guides and rudder pedals which protects the wooden parts from scuffing and similarly does not show scuffs and scratches from one's shoes on the soft aluminium covering. Feel free to use the Laird construction interview by Ronny Gosselin, even though that may not be how the project unfolds!
 

Fighting 14

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Sep 18, 2021
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374
Good old Otto Correct. He follows me around also. Thanks for your comments, your airplanes are also stunning! Here is a very neat video for any who have not seen it. Thanks for your creativity!!
 

flitzerpilot

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Apr 19, 2017
Messages
421
Location
Hirwaun, Aberdare, S.Wales, UK.
Fighting 14, further to whet your interest in the Sopwith Schneider, here is some more information, culled from 'British Civil Aircraft' Volume 2, 1919-1959 by A J Jackson (Putnam).

Single-seat racing seaplane of timber construction featuring 2-1/2" backward stagger. Built at Kingston-on-Thames for the 1919 Schneider Trophy contest. One a/c only, G-EAKI, c/n 3067, flown by HG Hawker Bournmouth-Swanage 10.9.19, retired through fog and contest abandoned. Span 24', Length (over floats) 21'6", AUW 2,200 lbs. Max speed 170 mph. on Cosmos Jupiter.

Sopwith Rainbow, landplane conversion of G-EAKI, ABC Dragonfly, mount for HG Hawker for the Hendon Aerial Derby 24.7.20. Disqualified for incorrect finishing. Rebuilt 1922 with 500 hp Bristol Jupiter by the Sopwith/Hawker Engineering Co. - the only aircraft in which the transitional nomenclature of Sopwith/Hawker may be strictly applied. Second in 1923 Aerial Derby at Croydon piloted by F/Lt WH Longton at 165 mph. Re-registered to the Hawker Co. 18.7.23, crashed 5.10.23. Length 18'. Max speed Dragonfly 165 mph, Jupiter 175 mph.

I have seen pictures of a superb model Schneider seaplane, either as a Peanut Scale type or maybe a scratch-built plastic model, which indicated that it was painted medium blue. If I recall correctly there was also a full-size water-taxiing model made of this for a lake feature in the 1970's which conforms the colour scheme. Floats were finished in a dark varnish.

I must have more data somewhere which I will investigate. Fuel tanks were bilateral panniers within the fuselage contours, the same as on my Z-1R Stummelflitzer design.
 

Fighting 14

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Sep 18, 2021
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374
Thanks for all that!😄. Will dig into it more this week when I get time. Today is Thanksgiving Day. Happy Thanksgiving to all and my prayers are with the people in peril around the World!!
 
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