# Jungster 1 & 2 aircraft

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#### Dominic Eller

##### Well-Known Member
DA must be annoying where you are!
Not sure if our avgas prices, I’m running the S6 on mo has and when I haven’t used avgas for a while and when I do it’s in the hire rate for the aircraft so I just swipe and go. But I’m guessing it’s around the same price maybe more.
Our mo gas 95oct is about $2.70 ltr ! That’s about$6.90us per gallon.

Yup!Mr Bob Hoover or Hoove’s to his mates is a great dog! 14 1/2 years old two cancer surgery’s in the last year and still charging he hangs in the workshop everyday.
He loves chasing model planes, he’s only about 3yrs old in the pic of him with the model.

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#### Dominic Eller

##### Well-Known Member
Anyone know the details of the yellow Jungster I that's been for sale on the various sites in Erie PA? It falls into the category of cheaper than you can build it, but too expensive to justify buying it unless you already have an engine sitting around.
Is it one of these ?

Goose was looking at buying one of these but he is 6,5 so a little on the tall side for them but maybe he knows something about them?
I think you should get one and join the cult!

#### BJC

##### Well-Known Member
Nice paint scheme.

BJC

#### BJC

##### Well-Known Member
If you never saw Bevo Howard fly his Warner powered Jungmeister, you haven’t seen the finest, close-in, intimate, airshow ever.

BJC

#### Dominic Eller

##### Well-Known Member
Yup! Love his flying! I’ve watched every vid I can find. He’s the snap master! Love the knife edge snaps!

#### VenturePilot

##### Active Member
Is it one of these ?
View attachment 118325View attachment 118326

Goose was looking at buying one of these but he is 6,5 so a little on the tall side for them but maybe he knows something about them?
I think you should get one and join the cult!
Yea the first one without an engine. It's been for sale a while, also has one that is torn apart even further. Just day dreaming right now and waiting for Fighting 14 to finally give us a PIREP!

#### Fighting 14

##### Well-Known Member
Well first pirep is that the cockpit is mighty small. I am 5'10 170 lbs and I just fit with the doors against my shoulders. Sitting on a thin National seat pack I am higher than I want to be. So if you are much taller or wider ..........think twice.

On another note, I have been grousing about my airplane being tail heavy. And sadly it is. I went out and leveled it and using a plum-bob from the lower stub wing LE to the floor and then measuring carefully with a ruler and square I found my original measurement was off. So the wheel centroid is closer to the datum than originally calculated which accounts for the tail heavy behavior.

So everybody work hard to stay light and avoid shooting a load of paint or adding weight since most of that weight is going to the rear of the CG. I am glad I did not just decide to shove the power all the way up and go for it, thinking my CG calculation was correct. Take your time and do a lot of testing. If something is not acting right, stop and analyze. I had the advantage of having flown these Jungsters before, so I had a base line of experience and how it should handle. The tail should be coming up by 30 mph indicated and if it won't something is haywire. I plan to borrow a friends metal prop and see if the extra weight fixes the problem. The Culver prop is light, 9 lbs. versus 43 lbs. for metal. Winds were gusting over 40 today. Sorry guys, bear with me and I will give you a pirep eventually.

#### Fighting 14

##### Well-Known Member
Great pictures of Hoove.

Today's effort.

#### Dominic Eller

##### Well-Known Member
Great info F14th!
How heavy is your tail wheel ? The maule one we have is a good few pounds more than an API one, just the solid tire weighs 3lb, the solid one off the Rans of similar diameter is only 1.4lb
I’m planing on changing tail wheels. I don’t think there is a lot else I can do to save much weight back at the tail. I could ditch the last set of rudder cable pulleys for fairleads ….
I could also use the 600 weight Oratex on the ply tail fin and horizontal to save a few 100g maybe.

#### Dominic Eller

##### Well-Known Member
Yea the first one without an engine. It's been for sale a while, also has one that is torn apart even further. Just day dreaming right now and waiting for Fighting 14 to finally give us a PIREP!
To follow on from what F14th says, lowering the seat pan helps a lot and moving the instrument support / tension member forward a few inches helps taller folks a lot. I’m a little over 6’1” but only 165lb and with the lowered seat and forward tension member I can get in and out without contorting and my head is just below the top of the turtle deck.
So it’s possible to fit taller folks ok

#### Fighting 14

##### Well-Known Member
Dom, Looks like I misspoke when I said my tailwheel is a Maule. I think it is a Lang. Spruce has the weights of the various tailwheels. I think it is in the neighborhood of 5 or 6 pounds. I am pretty tight in the shoulders especially sitting on the chute with the doors closed. But it is ok. If I was bigger in the shoulders they would not close. I have plenty of length. But I fear football players would never fit. I have sat in a Spitfire and it was similar to my Ryan STA which fits like a glove, and this is smaller, particularly in width. I know the Pools widened their fuselage a couple inches to accommodate his dad, who flew P-51s and was the aid to General Hap Arnold during WWII. Even with that he could not get in it, and sadly never flew it. We did have one friend who was 6' 3'', who shoe horned himself into it and flew it. I don't know how he did it. You will be ok with your panel forward. I would reiterate how much happier you will be if you can design some hand holds above you on the Center Section. It will pay dividends. You can see on mine I have two bullets glued in front of the cockpit on the Center Section. I used two sailplane rubber wing tip skids painted white and attached with the super strong 3M double sided sticky tape. They don't work very well. Not big enough to be a very good hand hold. If you could glue a heavy dowel or something across the curve in the C.S. to use to pull yourself up, believe me you will be glad you did it.

The CG issue looks like a metal prop should bring me into the envelope, so I am feeling good about that. I could also probably use a prop extension and a Twin Commanche nose bowl which I have, keeping the Culver prop, but I think the metal prop is the easier route. I re-figured the CG and I was nearly 1.75 inches beyond the aft limit. Make certain you get the position of you wheel centers correct in relation to the Datum. Pretty certain that had something to do with the squirrelly behavior. You are planning to use Oratex and that will help you keep the weight down. I painted mine with Randthane, and no doubt could have used less paint. I found it difficult to use being very finicky. I would not try it again. The first time I shot the fuselage white it was beautiful. Of course you have to wear a full covering and hood with respirator, giant pain, and hard to see. But it was perfect. Not a drip!! 45 minutes later I went back in the paint booth, and the whole thing was a melted mess, just melted. Boy was that fun to sand. So I ended up with probably double the paint. Next time if there is a next time I will go back to dope. But I am sure that the additional weight of the metal prop 42 inches forward of Datum will fix the issue. I have also tightened my tailwheel springs so they are under tension full-time. The fairings came out great and I am sold on that method of fabrication. The ability to cut and fit with just a pair of scissors is huge!!! A little heat from the heat gun and you can bend and form instantly. One caution, because the fabric is laid up within the resin, it acts much like aluminum and resists compound curves.
That is why I had to cut multiple pieces. The J.B. Weld fills the seams where they come together. Huge huge time saver!! Happy Thanksgiving to All!! Blue side up, Greasy side Down!!!

#### Dominic Eller

##### Well-Known Member
You have definitely hit on a great fabrication method. It has made me 2nd guess my composite wingtips idea though as Oratex uses a fair bit of heat to activate the glue.
I may have to go for hollowed out balsa or Pawlena wood.
The lower wingtips I wanted removable or at least a panel to slide the aileron push pull tubes in and out if needed as it’s a little tight via the fuse.
The Pools sound like an interesting family to hang with! P51’s and generals!
I’ll be checking the gear to see how it matches the plans for fore/aft position when I’m back in QT next week.
Regarding the handholds, I’m not struggling at all using the rear cabanes to do any lowering or hauling in and out.
I think moving the instrument panel forward totally changes the dynamics of ingress / egress I can simply slide my legs back to the rear spar grab the cabanes and standup on the seat. I’m pretty sure the fuel tank won’t cause an issue with this. Getting in like this is easy too. Maybe I’ll find a fish hook down the line but seems ok so far.
i think bulging the doors a little could help the broader shouldered get comfy. I’m toying with the idea of raking the doors up higher at the rear to get that snugged in feeling and an even smaller looking pilot from the outside, might give the plane more “presence” or I could be totally wrong we will find out though

#### Fighting 14

##### Well-Known Member
Off the point of the Jungster a little bit, but I saw these vids and thought all who love airplanes would appreciate them. Bevo's flying speaks for itself. The Blue Angels and Thunderbirds video will resonate with all who have spent time working hard to station keep. Watch the left hands and remember how hard you worked the throttle when learning, being in near constant motion. I wondered if it was just me who worked the throttle so hard, but it was fun to see that the Blues and the Thunderbirds are no different. For those who have not flown in close formation it requires total concentration and continuous use of the throttle or throttles. Listen to the throttle changes and see the left hands in motion. Do not try this at home without good dual instruction. Cool stuff!

#### Fighting 14

##### Well-Known Member
Dom, I've been thinking about your composite wing tips. I think you will be fine. I am using only one layer of carbon fiber to do the fairing which heats up rapidly. For the wing tip you will need more than one layer. Probably at least two or three to get them strong enough. I doubt the Oratex application will get them hot enough to cause an issue. I have covered RCs with Oratex and I don't think you will have a problem. Seeing your attention to detail, you will no doubt come up with a fine solution. Hoping to borrow another prop this week. Winds to 43 knots tomorrow, but may be able to go get it day after tomorrow.

#### Fighting 14

##### Well-Known Member
Borrowed a friends Sensenich 74 M6 54. It fixes the CG issue. Too bad the Culver wooden prop was too light. The Culver was a 72-45 and it turned up 2450 static. This Sensenich at 74 inches and 54 inch pitch turns up 2250 static. I am going to find one like it pitched a little less. I want to go with a new or newly overhauled prop. This one had a pretty good vibration between 1000-1600 rpm. Smoother at idle than the Culver. Heavy prop helps. Tail comes up ok now.

#### Fighting 14

##### Well-Known Member
The 74 inch Sensenich appears to deliver noticeably more thrust than the Culver.

#### TFF

##### Well-Known Member
I bet that prop will work pretty good actually. I bet it unloads enough that it might be a good match.