Jungster 1 & 2 aircraft

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TFF

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I would get a cheater bar over the left axel and try and tweak it a little. It’s pretty, so I get not wanting to mess it up. The harsh gear on all these lite weight planes don’t like being crooked. One of the reasons high speed taxis end up being a general bad policy. The tail on the ground is probably being blanked out by the fuselage at anything less than just about lifting it. Another way these types of things are squirrelly. If the horn lengths are the same as the cable version, it should be close to the same.
 

Fighting 14

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I disagree about the wisdom of fast taxis. The tail is not blanked out. There is plenty of rudder control. And from prior experience testing other airplanes I can tell you, it is much better the first time you land to already know what the rollout is going to be like. You also have a much better sight picture and first flights are not a big surprise. I have already re-rigged the aileron from roll inputs I noticed during these taxi tests. Have you flown your Jungster yet? I am curious why you think fast taxis are a general bad policy?
 

Dominic Eller

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Cheers for the vids! yup she looks like a little bit of a handfull there at times, grass would be nice. We are lucky and have plenty of grass to operate from.
I have read that bi planes generally track better with a little toe out. Seems counter intuitive. But if yours isn’t even what ever it is that can’t be good. Sounds like wheel off, big bar on axel, heat and tweak!
If I make new taller gear I think I’ll look at the bolt on axels like you suggest.

Edit: oops didn’t read other posts outlining the toe in toe out and gear tweaking first 🙄
 
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Dominic Eller

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Got her wings back on last night. Now I’ll re make the old front struts so the top wings have even dihedral and the struts align with the airflow better.
The left side top took a little bit of jiggery pokery and tapping of greased bolts to get them in. I needed to put a bullet shaped bolt in from the rear and then tap it out with the normal bolt.
I wonder if I hit the joint area with heat if that will let it relax into better alignment?
After the struts are done I’ll do a full rig and tension then get my LAME buddy to do a pre cover inspection 👍
Slowly slowly catching the monkey 😜

4A859B45-A418-4E9B-A2C3-3E83FECB1296.jpegB8EE47A1-C515-4495-A72B-B659A78F6976.jpeg
 

Fighting 14

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Looks Fabulous! I know you must be getting excited. Mine also required drift pins to get some got the bolts in.
I told you that I want to add some feel to the rudder. After looking at the problem carefully, I think adding springs to the bell crank under the rudder pedals is better than adding any weight to the tail. It should be easy.

Also want to share what the EAA has to say about taxi tests.

11. TAXI TESTS - Unless you have already done so, try a number of slow taxi tests (no faster than a fast walk) to familiarize yourself with the steering and braking effectiveness, and to become proficient in handling the aircraft on the ground. Learn how much runway or taxiway width is needed to turn the airplane around.

12. HIGH SPEED TAXI TESTS – The real purpose for high speed taxi testing is to learn how the airplane feels and behaves just before reaching lift off speed.

For safety's sake, select an abort reference point (marker) about halfway down the runway. You should be able to cut your power when you reach that point and still have sufficient runway left for a safe stop without burning up the brakes and tires.

High speed runs down the runway must be limited to approximately 10 mph below anticipated lift-off speed.

Control effectiveness can be readily determined within that speed limitation. All flight controls, even the ailerons, normally become effective at relatively low speeds. You should, therefore, be able to work the controls to determine whether or not they are operating properly . . . and do so without trying one of those kamikaze lift-offs.

"Controlled lift-offs", particularly down a runway that is less than 5000 feet long, are dangerous and should not be attempted by inexperienced test pilots.

High speed taxi runs can also be helpful in verifying your weight and balance estimates. For example, if the tail is difficult to raise (taildragger) at moderate runway speeds, you probably have a tail heavy (aft CG) weight and balance situation. Return to the ramp and recheck the weight distribution and your figures again. Correct the problem.

Similarly, with a tricycle gear airplane, try raising the nosewheel after the elevator becomes effective. If you can't pick up the nosewheel at a fairly high taxi speed, you may likewise have a weight and balance problem . . . a forward CG condition. The proper technique is to get up to speed (10 mph below estimated take-off speed) - cut the throttle and check for rotation. This will save you the embarrassment of an accidental kangaroo take-off.

Make a couple of runs with and without a partial deployment of flaps. Is there a noticeable difference?

Pay attention to the amount of rudder input that is necessary to counteract engine torque and to keep the airplane straight on the runway. Watch out for fast applications of throttle at low speeds.

VW engines generally rotate opposite to the Lycomings and Continentals so be prepared to use left rudder on takeoff for torque correction.

Glance at your airspeed indicator during the high speed runs to see that it is working.

Monitor fuel and oil pressures, oil temperature and, also, the cylinder head temperature. If any of the indications are suspect, return to the ramp immediately.

Keep the tailwheel on the ground, with stick back pressure, at low runway speeds (taildraggers) until rudder effectiveness is obtained (about 30 mph) . . . especially in crosswind conditions. Likewise be very careful when the throttle is reduced after a high speed tail high taxi run and the tail starts to settle. Inadvertent back pressure on the control stick (too soon and too quick) might cause a surprise lift-off and difficult runway control problems.

Good work Dominic and keep on trucking. 👍
 

TFF

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I have a Starduster 1 ready to put wings on. So no Jungster for me. I was literally almost able to fly a Jungmann and was robbed of my buddy from Covid. I was about to do a condition inspection on it when he passed. Missed it by that much.

As for taxi tests, clearly you have the skills to handle it. I will always be a low time, so I will never have the skill set like you. I will say most people who get into one is closer to my skill set than yours, hence the warning for most. You are lucky to be able to really feel it out. Others it’s better to get up and get down. They are on top of it for real flying, but can’t put the same energy into a taxi test and end up dinging it. Should they try and fix it better, yes. The capacity for data collection is a lot less open for less experienced.

That said I have seen plenty an airplane torn up by people you never would have guessed.

I for one love seeing what is going on with all these projects and hope to see more. They are all fun to watch.
 

Fighting 14

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Sep 18, 2021
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The Starduster is a good looking airplane. Classic! What horsepower are you going to use?
 

Fighting 14

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Sep 18, 2021
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I think it is cool that there are several of us bringing back to life some forgotten old Jungsters. And our work is a tribute
to a man who I never met but wish I had. I found this this evening and I think it is worth sharing.

 

George Tyler

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Oct 19, 2021
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That’s sad news about Howard, condolences to his family 😔
Defiantly try and get the rights to the plans!!! We need to preserve them for future builders/rebuilders.
Would be neat to add some more mods and details to the plans. Especially for the control system, lowering the seat, moving the cockpit tension member forward for easier entry and exit and extending the gear….. the list goes on.
I have some parts in CAD format for water cutting, horizontal bolt engine mounts, undercarriage mount plates and ribs. I have a buddy who I might be able to bribe to get all the flat plate parts ready to go for CNC cutting.
Be good to collect all the pics we have and can get hold of and put them in one place for folks to scroll through. I sure got a lot of inspiration and tips from the old yahoo site with all the pics there before it got taken down and is lost for ever now.
Maybe we should make a thread here that’s just a picture dump ?
Hi Dom, I just found this site and the Jungster Forum. I’m going to travel to NY next week to pick up the Jungster project. I tried contacting Howard about getting plans, didn’t hear back, now I know why. Always hard to hear of individuals passing. Hopefully rights to plans can be secured, much history to be gained.
 

Dominic Eller

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Hey George welcome !! 🥳
Can’t wait until you have your project and start posting pics, no doubt you have seen fighting 14th nearly ready to fly !
Lots to learn from him 👍
 

andyvg52

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Wilder, TN
Hi Dom, I just found this site and the Jungster Forum. I’m going to travel to NY next week to pick up the Jungster project. I tried contacting Howard about getting plans, didn’t hear back, now I know why. Always hard to hear of individuals passing. Hopefully rights to plans can be secured, much history to be gained.
Hi George, I have original plans from around 1972 that I got as X-mas from my wife at the time, willing to sell if you have problem obtaining; never built one, but bought one in 2009, with many dis- crepancies.. give me a shout, Andy
 

Fighting 14

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Hey Dominic, Hope all is well there. Do you know what engine Oncle Gipetto is using? Just watching his aerobatic video. Boy he does a nice job!! His airplane flies very well. And it goes vertical pretty well.

I have my rudder feel springs and mounting brackets installed. I will get you a picture, not that you would need it. I will try it out. I installed them under the cockpit just behind the rudder pedals. I am curious to see if there is any noticeable change. Will let you know. Weather has been a problem. Snow and wind.
 

Fighting 14

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Sep 18, 2021
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Here is the effort to make the rudder pedals stiffer. The springs don't help much, they need to be shorter and heavier.
Not sure I want to put that strain on the mechanism. Part of the problem is the geometry. Rather than pulling straight against the spring there is some radial movement, and with a total pedal throw of only 2.5 inches from neutral, or 5 inches total, there is not much pull on the spring. Yep the pedals only move about 5.0 inches for full travel. The lower arm where the spring attaches move even less. So you can see why it requires a fine touch on the pedals. Too windy to even open the hangar door today. Looking forward to trying a heavier spring and doing some more taxis. Finally received the supplies for laying up the remaining gap fairings. The hangar is too cold for making them so I now have to make a plug to lay them up on. I'll get there eventually.😤
 

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andyvg52

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Here is the effort to make the rudder pedals stiffer. The springs don't help much, they need to be shorter and heavier.
Not sure I want to put that strain on the mechanism. Part of the problem is the geometry. Rather than pulling straight against the spring there is some radial movement, and with a total pedal throw of only 2.5 inches from neutral, or 5 inches total, there is not much pull on the spring. Yep the pedals only move about 5.0 inches for full travel. The lower arm where the spring attaches move even less. So you can see why it requires a fine touch on the pedals. Too windy to even open the hangar door today. Looking forward to trying a heavier spring and doing some more taxis. Finally received the supplies for laying up the remaining gap fairings. The hangar is too cold for making them so I now have to make a plug to lay them up on. I'll get there eventually.😤
I would be home sitting next to a hot wood burning stove eating a hot bowl of soup..
 

Dominic Eller

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Hey Dominic, Hope all is well there. Do you know what engine Oncle Gipetto is using? Just watching his aerobatic video. Boy he does a nice job!! His airplane flies very well. And it goes vertical pretty well.

I have my rudder feel springs and mounting brackets installed. I will get you a picture, not that you would need it. I will try it out. I installed them under the cockpit just behind the rudder pedals. I am curious to see if there is any noticeable change. Will let you know. Weather has been a problem. Snow and wind.
I asked Oncle about his engine on his you tube comments here was his reply z

Midi-Pyrénées Voltige
4 years ago
This Jungster has an O-320 D1F engine (160 HP) and an inverted oil and fuel system. I kept the plane during 8 and half years and sold it two years ago, after I finished to build my other plane (the CP90).

Could bungee be a solution instead of springs ?

Or as TFF suggests making the rudder horn longer to reduce sensitivity or both?
I keep forgetting to post the spread sheet of Jungster builds owners etc
I’ll try remember tonight 🙄

Keep at it Fighting 14! It will happen! 👍
 
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