Jabiru A3300 Engine

[flienlow]

Can someone please share the positive aspects of selecting the Jabiru A3300 as an Aircraft power plant?

 

[Geraldc]

Direct drive.
Good power to weight.
There may have been reliability issues with earlier models but these
have been sorted.
120 hp

 

[rdj]

A3300? Haven't seen one referred to with an 'A' before.

Advantages of the Jabiru 3300:
Inline six provides best balance short of a V12
Runs on Mogas
Dual magneto / Bing carb / Mechanical fuel pump - no electrical system needed for it to run
Onboard generator - no alternator required for powering light electrical loads
Relatively efficient and lightweight
Many of the service items can be bought at your local National Aerospace Parts Association store.

Hang around the various engine forums much and you will quickly learn that every IC aircraft engine out there is unreliable, expensive, impossible to cool, puts out nowhere near advertised power, and factory support goes dark as soon as it's shipped to you. The Jabiru 3300 is no different. Welcome to experimental aviation. Do what I do--buy one anyway, and then go practice a lot in gliders.

 

[BJC]

Inline six

?


BJC

 

[Lendo]

My Neighbor works at a Company that makes Engine parts for the Jabiru, their machinery is very specialized and sophisticated, they produce quality parts at any level of manufacturer. My old Hungarian Mechanical Engineer owns a 4 place Jabiru and can't say enough good things about the engine. It's light and powerful for it's weight, I have flown it.
Having said all that, I also agree with previous posts.
George

 

[flienlow]

A3300? Haven't seen one referred to with an 'A' before.

Advantages of the Jabiru 3300:
Inline six provides best balance short of a V12
Runs on Mogas
Dual magneto / Bing carb / Mechanical fuel pump - no electrical system needed for it to run
Onboard generator - no alternator required for powering light electrical loads
Relatively efficient and lightweight
Many of the service items can be bought at your local National Aerospace Parts Association store.

Hang around the various engine forums much and you will quickly learn that every IC aircraft engine out there is unreliable, expensive, impossible to cool, puts out nowhere near advertised power, and factory support goes dark as soon as it's shipped to you. The Jabiru 3300 is no different. Welcome to experimental aviation. Do what I do--buy one anyway, and then go practice a lot in gliders.

Thank you for your response!
Here are things I am hearing.
-"This is not a Lycoming, if you want a Lycoming go buy one."
- "This is a very light weight high performance engine. Think of it like a Ferrari engine, it needs constant care and attention."
- "You must constantly pay attention to your cylinder head temps"
(I am not dropping names, but that was not just a joe blow that said it to me.)
That coupled by the fact that this engine needs a $10,000 rebuild at 1000hrs, needs a full rebuild at 2000hrs. Requires 25hr oil changes, is very difficult to cold start. Has prompted concerns with the purchase.
The Particular engine i am looking at is a late Gen 2 with some "Mods" done, but apparently does not have a "through bolt or roller cam" upgraded.

 

[rdj]

?


BJC

Yes, brain fart. Thinking flat while typing inline. At least they're on the same 'plane'

 

[rdj]

Thank you for your response!
Here are things I am hearing.
-"This is not a Lycoming, if you want a Lycoming go buy one."
- "This is a very light weight high performance engine. Think of it like a Ferrari engine, it needs constant care and attention."
- "You must constantly pay attention to your cylinder head temps"
(I am not dropping names, but that was not just a joe blow that said it to me.)
That coupled by the fact that this engine needs a $10,000 rebuild at 1000hrs, needs a full rebuild at 2000hrs. Requires 25hr oil changes, is very difficult to cold start. Has prompted concerns with the purchase.
The Particular engine i am looking at is a late Gen 2 with some "Mods" done, but apparently does not have a "through bolt or roller cam" upgraded.

True. If you want to live dangerously fly something other than a Lycoming in an RV. I'm familiar with that look of alarm mingled with concern for the airport's reputation when I mention building a 'Jabiru-powered Zenith' to the retired airline pilots at the local EAA chapter.

There are now four generations of Jabiru engines out there, along with a run of engines provided by a now-defunct former subcontractor of Jabiru called Camit Aero Engines. Each generation has had its quirks, but most installed engines are still plugging along nicely. If you haven't already, I recommend heading over to main@JabCamit.groups.io | Topics which seems to be the most (perhaps only) active group discussing the Jabiru and Camit engines. They can bring you up to speed on what you should look for on a late model Gen 2 engine.

 

[BBerson]

Very similar to Continental o-200 in displacement, power and weight.

 

[BJC]

I always have wanted to see a J 3300 in a Midget Mustang. It could be more streamlined than, and look better than, the typical C-85 or O-200. Met a fellow working in the Jabiru display at Sun n Fun who claimed to have a project,


BJC

 

[Lendo]

I think for the US market, the Jabiru engine price is good partly because of the exchange rate. From what I hear from Jabiru themselves, is that the Tappet roller bearing upgrade caused some Torsional Vibrations which affected the Through Bolts. Better to research that one locally as I don't own one myself, but having flown a four place I can attest to the Engines Power - very good.
George

 

[rollerball]

Fairly or unfairly, although they have their proponents who will defend them vociferously until the cows come home (usually mechanics or high knowledge owners who are prepared to constantly fettle and maintain their engines while not being flown), Jab engines don't on the whole have a good reputation in Europe. Confidence was knocked (a) by the sheer number of engine failures and (b) permission being withdrawn in Australia for them to be used other than for solo flights and not for training. If for sale, an aircraft's value is always knocked here if it has a Jab engine. Savannah ultralights in the UK were originally limited to Jab engines as Rotaxes took them over the weight limit but this was not so elsewhere in Europe. The relative number of Savannahs and their second-hand prices were lower in the UK as a result. UK owners must be pretty sick because it's been decided that the UL weight limit is going to be increased and their aircraft will therefore be further devalued compared to those with Rotax powerplants. I'm glad to say that mine that I bought in France has a 912ULS engine fitted. I personally wouldn't touch a Jab.

 

[EzyBuildWing]

D-motor 6-cylinder 120 HP continuous, efi, side valve, direct-drive might be an excellent alternate to Rotax and Jab....seems they're putting them in some light helicopters now.
Anyone heard anything about them?

 

[Geraldc]

(a) by the sheer number of engine failures and (b) permission being withdrawn in Australia for them to be used other than for solo flights and not for training

Lack of maintenance was the cause I believe.

 

[blane.c]

All aircraft engines that I have flown behind require more attention than the family car. There are exceptions to most anything in aviation except gravity always works, but generally and especially regarding maintaining temperatures it goes without saying (except I am saying it) that mass is king keeping temperatures steady and slower temperature rise/fall. So anytime you go for something "lighter" aka "less mass" it is going to require more attention than something heavier regards keeping temperatures were they belong. So if a Jabiru being lighter requires more attention from the pilot (and the installation) to keep temperatures proper it is only natural.

 

[rollerball]

All aircraft engines that I have flown behind require more attention than the family car. There are exceptions to most anything in aviation except gravity always works, but generally and especially regarding maintaining temperatures it goes without saying (except I am saying it) that mass is king keeping temperatures steady and slower temperature rise/fall. So anytime you go for something "lighter" aka "less mass" it is going to require more attention than something heavier regards keeping temperatures were they belong. So if a Jabiru being lighter requires more attention from the pilot (and the installation) to keep temperatures proper it is only natural.

Yes, up to a point. But... In my time flying ultralights ( call it 12 years) I've not heard of a single Rotax engine failure. However, I have two close colleagues who have had Jab engine failures both properly installed in approved aircraft. So how much more is 'more attention'? And how do you know, until it fails, that the 'more' attention that you're giving it is enough?

Sorry, you can only go on an engine's history. Like it or not (and most of us hate their prices) Rotax engines have a very good historical reputation, Jab bl**dy awful.

And re Australia, I don't think that the aircraft concerned weren't receiving 'enough' maintenance. I doubt that any school would be 'undermaintaining' their aircraft compared to the recommended schedule. It would be suicide for them to do that given as how they'd open themselves up to huge potential claims in the event of an accident due to such a policy.

BTW, because ultralight engines can be run 'on condition' in the UK, there are/were Rotax 2-strokes being operated with engines into the 500/600 hours and still going strong. Same for the 912s' - well over the 1500 hours that Rotax give as the time for overhaul (2000 hrs +). Jabs never get to those sort of mumbers, but hey, you take your choice.

 

[blane.c]

As an alternative engine I am more interested in pilot reports on the D-Motor, being liquid cooled it has potential to be a good engine for trainers but I have seen no information from people in the field about it.

 

[bmcj]

D-motor 6-cylinder 120 HP continuous, efi, side valve, direct-drive might be an excellent alternate to Rotax and Jab....seems they're putting them in some light helicopters now.
Anyone heard anything about them?

D-Motor would be a good alternative in that size/power range. They are relatively unknown if the U.S., but have been in use in the European Union for quite awhile now. One of the nice things about the D-Motor is that they are lightweight and very compact, so you can fit them under almost any cowl.

 

[rollerball]

I'm not pro-Rotax and have no reason to be but the D-Motor is having problems in Europe, as every 'alternative to Rotax' has had, just penetrating the market and carving out market share. The main reason I think is the one I mentioned above. As one well-known flying school owner and manufacturer in the UK told me, when you amortize the cost of a Rotax over the actual number of trouble-free hours that you get out of it, it always makes sense to go for a Rotax compared to other 'cheaper' alternatives that have little history and tend to be less reliable. And he operates a fleet of fixed and flexwing training aircraft.

 

[Lendo]

There is no doubt Rotax is good - and expensive, and where the costs can be written off, most likely the best option for a flying school, however for one off there's the initial cost and maintenance to consider.
George