J-3 Eagle
- Thread starter Bill-Higdon
- Start date
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The airplane spun on final, landed on the roof of a house, and killed the pilot. It did not occur in a turn. Unofficially, we guessed that the flaperons deployed non-symmetrically. The pilot was in the (bad) habit of storing the assembly manual (or some other related document) on the cockpit floor. It likely bound the exposed flaperon linkage as the flaperons were being lowered further on short final.
I want one.
Edit. I see that V1 posted a link to the NTSB report. I don’t recall air brakes, but that was long ago.
BJC
Last edited:
By any chance, do any of the parts from that wrecked Florida aircraft still exist / available? I know it's 30 years, but stuff like this can occasionally sit in someone's hangar or garage. I am looking for the retractable main gear assembly if it can still be found.
Hephaestus
Well-Known Member
BAE owns the design now as a UAV platform - so I'd expect that stopped any further kit sales.
Cant have folks running around in ultralights that look like a military UAV...
I knew about BAE, and that they took over the rights to the J-5 and J-6. The HERTI is the UAS based on the J-5, and I'd expect the J-6 to have spawned off a longer duration and quieter UAS taking advantage of the higher L/D.
Mohawk750
Well-Known Member
Are you sure about that? Aero designs website says they supplied 50 airframes for the program program between 2003 and 2010. It doesn't say anything about relinquishing the rights to the design. FWIW I can't find anywhere where BAE claims ownership either but this may have been the point where 50 orders on the books means it's no longer viable to sell a few a year commercially and the owners could exit the company with a sale to BAE and retire in comfort.
There hasn't been a new report of Herti activity in the passed 10 years so I suspect that program has long run it's course. I have some knowledge of the UAV space and I believe the RAF has moved beyond the Herti at this point.
Hephaestus
Well-Known Member
No guarantee - but I can't see bae being ok with airframes being sold when it is/was offered as a commercial military solution.
I'm sure that's a long and complex contract.
But we know the exp kit market can be rather hard on suppliers too. Never mind adding in 2020's mess.
I'm sure that's a long and complex contract.
But we know the exp kit market can be rather hard on suppliers too. Never mind adding in 2020's mess.
David L. Downey
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2019
- Messages
- 93
Thank you! I did find and download them!
Mohawk750
Well-Known Member
Re-booting this thread.
Somewhere on this board I mentioned that it would be a noble enterprise for someone to translate the Janowski J2 plans from Polish to English so we could better understand the design and construction. Well hearing no response I decided if it was worth doing I may as well do it! I have about 25 hours of "spare" time invested so far and just have to review the work I've done to be sure it's error free and consistent nomenclature is used throughout.
What I did not realize was how beneficial my effort would be to understanding the design, identifying errors/ommisions and drawing focus on some of the missing information. i.e. only the mono wheel is depicted in the plans and many pictures clearly show a conventional gear installation. There is absolutely nothing on systems beyond the flight controls.
What I would really like is for someone who is fluent in Polish to review my work. If there is someone on this board that wants to proof read my efforts please respond to this post?
At this point in time I don't think anyone would build a J1 or J2 exactly to the plans. You would undoubtedly end up with such an accumulation of changes and material substitutions that the design would end up being your own even if it strongly resembled the Janowski designs. So, my second question would be;
Is there anyone on this board that would be willing to contribute a similar number of hours as my translation effort to the conceptual design of a new hybrid Janowski inspired airplane? We could call it the Janowski project, identify the mission and refine the construction method, develop the design concept and go from there. It could potentially become another open source design posted for "educational" purposes.
I do not have the CAD skills or engineering background to do this effectively on my own but I would like to learn how it's done even if it's not me doing it. What I can bring to the table is 30 plus years aviation experience as an AME, one aircraft restoration and several homebuilt project assist efforts, scrounging ability, problem solving and enthusiasm!
I think I'll leave it there and post to see if there is any interest.
Thanks, Mark
Somewhere on this board I mentioned that it would be a noble enterprise for someone to translate the Janowski J2 plans from Polish to English so we could better understand the design and construction. Well hearing no response I decided if it was worth doing I may as well do it! I have about 25 hours of "spare" time invested so far and just have to review the work I've done to be sure it's error free and consistent nomenclature is used throughout.
What I did not realize was how beneficial my effort would be to understanding the design, identifying errors/ommisions and drawing focus on some of the missing information. i.e. only the mono wheel is depicted in the plans and many pictures clearly show a conventional gear installation. There is absolutely nothing on systems beyond the flight controls.
What I would really like is for someone who is fluent in Polish to review my work. If there is someone on this board that wants to proof read my efforts please respond to this post?
At this point in time I don't think anyone would build a J1 or J2 exactly to the plans. You would undoubtedly end up with such an accumulation of changes and material substitutions that the design would end up being your own even if it strongly resembled the Janowski designs. So, my second question would be;
Is there anyone on this board that would be willing to contribute a similar number of hours as my translation effort to the conceptual design of a new hybrid Janowski inspired airplane? We could call it the Janowski project, identify the mission and refine the construction method, develop the design concept and go from there. It could potentially become another open source design posted for "educational" purposes.
I do not have the CAD skills or engineering background to do this effectively on my own but I would like to learn how it's done even if it's not me doing it. What I can bring to the table is 30 plus years aviation experience as an AME, one aircraft restoration and several homebuilt project assist efforts, scrounging ability, problem solving and enthusiasm!
I think I'll leave it there and post to see if there is any interest.
Thanks, Mark
Tiger Tim
Well-Known Member
I’m pretty sure there was a J-5 at what I consider my home field for a year or two a while back. It came in on a trailer, got assembled in a T-hangar and mostly just sat. A bunch of local pilots had nothing nice to say about the airplane, as often happens when something isn’t understood, and I’m not sure any of us ever even met the owner of the thing. I thought it looked like it could be a lot of fun though the thought of a single mainwheel taildragger skittering down our narrow runway that was well overdue for re-paving didn’t appeal as much to me. I just had visions of the wing tip skids (tip wheels?) alternately catching on cracks and grooves before the plane was going fast enough for the ailerons to become effective. Maybe there was merit to my premonitions because...
One day I drove by the hangar and it was inside looking pretty broken. I think it was on blocks with the main gear assembly badly damaged and maybe there was a broken wingtip or leading edge or something. It’s been a while. Apparently an attempt was made to fly it and that’s how it ended before ever leaving the ground. After a while the J-5 left on a trailer never to be seen again.
One day I drove by the hangar and it was inside looking pretty broken. I think it was on blocks with the main gear assembly badly damaged and maybe there was a broken wingtip or leading edge or something. It’s been a while. Apparently an attempt was made to fly it and that’s how it ended before ever leaving the ground. After a while the J-5 left on a trailer never to be seen again.
Mohawk750(Mark)-- Sorry, not related to your recent post, but just chiming in: I think all the Janowski designs look great. The are clean, look like they might be easy to build, apparently have very good visibility, and apparently fly well on limited power. The devil is in the details (Are they easy to build? Do they fly well? Do they perform well?). But, they are, to my eye, good looking planes and at least that usually is a better starting point than an ugly looking one.
Mark
Mark
Tiger Tim
Well-Known Member
There was a build log on here for a J-1 and IIRC there were some unexpected complexities in building the fuselage.
Aerowerx
Well-Known Member
And keep mind...
Janowski built his original J-1 in a 1970s vintage 3rd floor apartment, in Communist Poland.
Janowski built his original J-1 in a 1970s vintage 3rd floor apartment, in Communist Poland.
Aerowerx
Well-Known Member
Was that me?
The biggest problem I found was that there were compound curves in the lower longerons, and I could not figure out how to bring the two sides together without causing the longerons to twist. I also did not like all that pent-up stress that would result when forcing the sides together at the nose. The nose is about 10 inches wide, with the cockpit about 22 inches at the widest---a lot of force required, which would cause tension on the joints.
I still have the sides hanging in my garage, BTW.
Hephaestus
Well-Known Member
That's fairly typical in the KR2 world if i recall, they call it the banana boat stage. only headache is loosing your reference lines.
Tiger Tim
Well-Known Member
Sounds about right.
Do you think it would have come together easier if you had made all the formers, put them in a fixture, strung the longerons onto them, then plywood skinned it? I think the later Flying Flea fuselages go together that way.
Mohawk750
Well-Known Member
I read your log earlier and understand you had difficulty and were not satisfied with the results but I still go back to the significant number of J1B's that have been built. Some builders have figured it out.
I was wondering if you could take a page out of the boat builders handbook and set up a set of inverted station bulkheads like a canoe strong back on your build table. Cut the corners cut out of the bulkheads to fit the stringer and add provisions for clamping. Then place the stringers in a piece of PVC pipe and steam the s**t out of them. Remove from the pipe and clamp on the strongback and let dry to lower the moisture content before gluing.
Does that sound reasonable?
Hephaestus
Well-Known Member
I'd post your translation up here. We have some polish friends here - in bite sized chunks some may attack it piece at a time without a big commitment.
Worst case it helps attract a few of those old Janowski yahoo people onto the forum in their search for more info.
Henryk is native Polish, is he not? Shoot him an email.
Or mention the Kasper Wing to draw him out.
Or mention the Kasper Wing to draw him out.
