Is this the lightest ultralight?

Discussion in 'The light stuff area' started by Aerowerx, May 24, 2018.

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  1. Jul 6, 2018 #21

    Aesquire

    Aesquire

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    Btw, it's hard to beat the Easy Riser for weight, strength, and ability to fly on low power. A Polini Thor 200 or 250 would give you an awe inspiring climb rate.

    I've long been amused at the time travel fantasy of going to Kitty Hawk with a hang glider or trike and breaking reality as Orville and Wilber abandon the Flyer.

    Fuelled by actually flying there, in sight of the spire. On my first flight I beat the Wright's glider records. With a second gen Rogallo

    But for a real Bucket List experience.

    https://www.kittyhawk.com/adventures/1902-wright-glider-experience/

    This wasn't formalized when I was generously given a chance to fly a lovingly crafted replica back in the 20th century. I did NOT beat any records. ( not a tethered training camp flight, that came years after my time )

    It did teach me Orville & Wilber Had Mad Skillz, and Big Brass Ones.
     
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  2. Jul 7, 2018 #22

    jedi

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    Re: 70kg / 154lb deregulated category - what can you build? Post #20

    [​IMG]

    Empty weight 150 pounds
    Operating weight 350 pounds
    Span 32 Feet
    Wing Area 98 Sq Ft.
    Power 15 Hp
    Stalll Speed 26 mph
    Max Speed 60 mph

    It would incorporate Kasper Vortex lift, Bowers/Horten BSLD, Spratt control wing, TL-1 improved landing gear, modern materials and methods, aeroelastic gust protection and control, configured to fit within an elevator for storage, and convertable from roadable to flight in 30 seconds or less.

    Opps: Will not be available till 2020 if ordered today.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2018
  3. Jul 7, 2018 #23

    henryk

    henryk

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    -moore of VORTEX lift ? (photo not clear...)


    =Kasper type vortex dont like BSLD type wings...

    BTW=KASPERWING (160 kg,16 qm) can stabil fly 13mph!
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2018
  4. Jul 7, 2018 #24

    jedi

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    "Kasper type vortex dont like BSLD type wings..." or high aspect ratio. Kasper vortex lift is on inboard wing section only and only briefly while landing.
     
  5. Jul 7, 2018 #25

    henryk

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  6. Jul 7, 2018 #26

    pictsidhe

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    160kg, 16m^2, 13mph means the CL is 5.0

    I'm a teensy bit skeptical of the veracity of that.
     
  7. Jul 8, 2018 #27

    jedi

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    Henryk,

    "<30 deg.AoA (for NACA8-H-12) " Understood and agree. Nice post and graphics. Stall with vortex lift is better than flaps.

    Pictsidhe,

    Slow airspeeds and high angle of attach is difficult to measure and an in depth flight test program was never done in the US. How much confidence do you have in the 13 mph Henryk?

    Cl does not need to be 5 for the numbers to work out. 5 would be the vector sum of Cl + Cd.

    Kasper claimed a theoretical limit of CL = 25. I suspect he meant Cl + Cd and do not know how that accounted for induced drag. Not sure I believe that either but is is not a good idea to bet against progress. Just look at what the birds do!

    IMHO your skepticism if well justified. But the Bekas did do a fantastic short field landing. Unbelievable according to several pilot eye witnesses!
     
  8. Jul 8, 2018 #28

    jedi

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    The photo of https://i.pinimg.com/originals/15/b1...2119e24bb2.jpg is generally described as a vertical mush it appears to me to be about 75 degrees AoA. Cl is very small and Cd is what is controlling the vertical speed. The prop is stopped and L/D is about 0.2.

    A flat pate has a Cd of about 1.0 and a slight forward speed will cause the resultant force to increase with no magical aerodynamics. Then we can talk about unsteady conditions which allow even higher forces. What is the Cd of a vibrating wire?
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2018
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  9. Jul 8, 2018 #29

    pictsidhe

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    Lift is, by definition, perpendicular to the airflow.
     
  10. Jul 8, 2018 #30

    Daleandee

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  11. Jul 8, 2018 #31

    jedi

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    Agree. If you are in a vertical descent Lift would be horizontal and cause a forward motion. Therefore in a vertical descent lift is zero. L/D = 0.
     
  12. Jul 8, 2018 #32

    henryk

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    -yes,in VERTICAL "MUSH REGIME" Cd>5 (5 m/s, G/S=160 kG/16 qm=10)...

    AoA_<90 deg.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPOzzzitGu0

    -for comparation,desant paraschut Cd=1.5 (5 m/s, G/S=160 kG/80 qm=2)=circa...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEbOOwAnlW0

    PS=lowest KASPERWING HORISONTAL speed we registratet was 5m/s (18 km/h !) =wing fly stabil ...

    ^F8C4FF1845A26B36D20329E039FF7D772A11F39CE5DC1A8EDA^pimgpsh_fullsize_distr.jpg
     
  13. Jul 8, 2018 #33

    pictsidhe

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    A thin wing, if it didn't stall, would need an incidence of about 45 degrees for Cl 5
     
  14. Jul 8, 2018 #34

    henryk

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    -its a pity,
    we have not polars for NACA8-H-12 (KASPERWING like ) at AoA >30 deg...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQixcsaAdIc

    =high A0A, low speed and ToL distance...22HP only !
     
  15. Jul 8, 2018 #35

    BJC

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    If it is real, then someone who wants to promote it could build a small wind tunnel, run some tests, and make believers of some of us. Or not.


    BJC
     
  16. Jul 8, 2018 #36

    pictsidhe

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    No high AOA in that clip. NACA got Cl of 1.25 at Re 1.8e6 from their 8H12 testing. The kasperwing will be flying at a lower Re.

    The BKB and kasperwing looked like they could likely 'donate' features to my project as they appeared to fly fairly well. But I could only find hyperbole, so I stopped looking at them.
     
  17. Jul 13, 2018 #37

    Maxray

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    Here is an oldie...…
    POPULAR AVIATION.jpg
     
  18. Sep 16, 2018 #38

    lr27

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    The Phoenix human powered aircraft spanned over 100 feet and weighed a bit over 100 lbs. It was inflatable, so I imagine if you just added a little helium, you could make it as light as you liked. ;-) Hmm.. I wonder if it would have been considered cheating if they made the top out of black plastic and vented some of the air as it warmed up.

    https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2352/2210528610_8c122bd049_z.jpg?zz=1
     
  19. Sep 17, 2018 #39

    Armilite

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    Depends on what you call Successful and SAFE. Probably 80% of them Old Planes weren't Legal Part 103's also. Considering it uses (2) Engines, the Lazair was probably the most successful and being the Lightess at an Empty Weight with (2) Rotax 185's: 210 lb (95 kg), says more than 2000 Sold. I believe the MX or Weed Hopper was the most Sold at around 8000.

    Today, the Phionix 103 Sets the Bar with a Hirth F-23 50hp Engine has the Highest Useful Load of 396lbs. A Simonini 54hp Single Cylinder today weighs less than the Hirth 50hp by about 8lbs. 396lbs + 8lbs = 404lbs.

    Hirth F-23 50hp. Weight: 78lbs, including reduction unit, full exhaust, and electric start or 71lbs with recoil start reduction unit and full exhaust.
    F-23 W/Electric-Start & Slide carburetor $5614.00
    F-23 W/Electric-Start & Diaphragm carburetor $5912.00
    F-23 W/Electric Start & Electronic fuel injection $7446.00
    Belt reduction drive $974.00
    Optional oil injection $383.00
    -----------------------------------------------------------------
    Simonini Victor 1 Super 54hp.
    Ready to Fly Electric Start 70.5lbs
    Victor 1 44hp $5,858.00
    Victor 1 Plus 48hp $6,185.00
    Victor 1 Super 54hp $

    Airplane Search Site.
    https://www.pilotmix.com/tag/aircraft-database/far-103
     
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  20. Sep 17, 2018 #40

    cluttonfred

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    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 20, 2019
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