INVERTED OIL SYSTEM / CONTINENTAL O-200

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Dennis DeFrange

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Doe's anyone on the forum here have a set of drawings for inverted oil system on a Continental O-200 ? I once had a set of plans for the early Cassutt and there was a sheet in the plans with drawings to modify the oil tank and also had a slide mechanism on the oil suction tube . If anyone has that drawing or maybe a different setup , I'd sure appreciate seeing it posted or having it PM'd my way . I'm sure there are others that could use it as well . Thanx Dennis
 

Dennis DeFrange

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Well , that's gets a bit more complicated . I'm looking at running GPU/APU cylinders that have the intake ports on the upper side of the heads , like the IO-360 Continental . Plenum mounted on top with intake tubes to the ports , TBI mounted in front with air filters directed to each eyebrow on the cowling , still researching the mechanical pump with electric pump backup . Still researching the need for intake heat with the TBI . If needed I have a design in mind that I think will work .
 

Dennis DeFrange

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Still working with my brain on brand . Open to pro's and Con's , Any suggestions ?
 

TFF

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No suggestion really. I think the ones they don’t make anymore are the preferred ones. None seem to be bolt and go out of the box.

Are you going to put a pump on it?

Some people just skip heat and some do just like a carb.

I think the original was designed to be warm all the time. One reason was to skip heat ducting, and I wonder if some was so it didn’t see a big swing in temperatures to affect the metering.
 

Dennis DeFrange

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I guess my thinking is , if mounted above , it would be in cooler air away from the exhaust and oil bag , plus what I've read here and on the biplane forum , some do and some don't . It's not like me to design something without a backup design . I won't call it carb heat but intake heat kinda fits it better . With what I have in mind , it wouldn't be much more complicated to route intake heat through the forward baffeling to the TBI inlet canister and basically wouldn't weight anything . I think that I'm getting a connection on cylinders but if that doesn't work out I don't have a problem with a conventional O-200 set up . I plan to start up after completing this project with a conventional O-200 and after getting used to the plane with all the changes that I'm making , airframe wise , then I will move forward with the engine setup as what is mentioned above . With the engine set up and TBI on top it will have to have a pump , mechanical/electric , probably both (aerobatics) . I don't know all that I need to know about the TBI setups yet so , I m snooping around here for input .
 

rv7charlie

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TBI can cover a pretty wide range of stuff, from an ancient Bendix 'pressure carb' to electronic (automotive style) fuel injection with the injector(s) mounted at the throttle body. If the throttle body uses venturi effect for the pressure signal and the fuel is injected into the venturi, you need heat. If it doesn't, you typically don't, but you might still need an alternate air source.

If you're looking for advice on all this stuff, more info would help. What airframe? What's your prior acro experience, and what are your acro goals? ex: I've flown acro since the early '90s, and I actually removed the gas tank flop tube from an RV4 I bought. I don't do hard core negative stuff; just loops, rolls and variations. None of the planes I've owned were intended for unlimited acro, either.

My point? Unless you are building/buying an unlimited acro design, and you know, from your own experience, that you actually enjoy making your eyeballs bleed, it might be worth examining whether you need the inverted systems. If you don't, then the plane will be a lot lighter and more reliable (safer).

Apologies for answering questions you didn't ask, but without knowing your background, I do remember when my aviation dreams far exceeded my common sense reality. ;-)
 

Dennis DeFrange

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This ain't no frickin dream Charlie . It's a Smith Miniplane . Numerous mods and it ain't my first one . I cannot see where you knowing the total intent for what I'm building would help at all . I drive a Toyota with 40 lbs of air in the left front tire and 45 in the other 3 . I posted here to interact with others that have advice if they would like to interject or share experiences . I didn't need a wanna be Engineer that will only make decisions worse . If this is the full extent of what you have to offer , move on to another post . I was doing fine before the confusion . You gotta be kiddin me !
 

rv7charlie

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No offense intended. But to be fair, opening with a rather vague question, followed by stated unfamiliarity with fuel delivery types and not knowing whether both mechanical and backup electric fuel pumps would be needed, makes it easy to believe the person asking the question has limited experience. Knowing the poster's expectations helps us to know whether we're supplying help that can realistically be utilized. If you've read stuff on internet forums for more than a week, you've seen guys wanting to know how to put a 500 hp engine in a Cub, or who explain to us that they know a foolproof way to use a homebuilt for charter operations, or, etc etc.

Again, sorry if my questions seemed offensive, just wanted to be sure the thread wasn't a waste of time.
 

TFF

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Was the Swack O-200 inverted a full inverted or one that hedged oil loss? I know of longer crankcase breathers and trap doors in the sump for holding oil.
To do a Christen, you will have to cut into the sump and modify the oil pickup. It wouldn’t be the hardest thing to do.
 

964SS

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I have a Giles Henderson’s Cassutt which has inverted oil and fuel on it.
I replaced the old Posa carb with an Aeroconversions Aeroinjector. I could never get that Posa working right. There is also a 1 gallon header tank for inverted flight. the inverted oil system looks homemade. I can take some pictures. There may be plans in all the paperwork I have for it.
 

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Dennis DeFrange

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I apologies from this end to all that my post may have effected . I am very serious about the project that I'm working on . At 71 I may never get to see the end result of it taking to the air but for whom ever does wind up with it down the road , I want them to be impressed with what they have . It's only a Smith MiniPlane but when completed , will only have a few hints of original MiniPlane left about it . I'm actually lookin at it as a tribute to the late Frank and Dorthy Smith . I had a Smith back in the early 1980's , restored it , an had to part with it but now retired , and I'm totally enjoying the restoration of this one . As with the airframe , I'm wanting the power plant to be unique as well and that is what is leading me to the induction system being so different . My entire family has a history of building the (It can't be done) things , and this is no exception . I do get a bit touchy at times , I guess that usually sets in around 65 on us old farts and I guess at 71 , easily diagnosed . Proof is in the post above . I consider Mark (race 38) to be a friend , though we've never met . Mark was good enough to send me the inverted system drawings . I don't really think or actually know if the inverted system is needed but it looks very simple and weighs nothing . I have a Christen system and I do know that is not going on this plane . As for fuel , A small header tank is being added to my fuel tank for brief inverted encounters . slight weight gain but nothing overboard . The pictures of Giles's Cassutt rekindled memories . I got yo meet and shake has hand at his last trip to Oshkosh . He was fueling the Cassutt . 4 months later , he parished . Again , if a times I become annoying or a bit sassy , please just think ( Old Fart) , and move on to better posts . That's All . Thank you for your patience .
 

Dennis DeFrange

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I have a Giles Henderson’s Cassutt which has inverted oil and fuel on it.
I replaced the old Posa carb with an Aeroconversions Aeroinjector. I could never get that Posa working right. There is also a 1 gallon header tank for inverted flight. the inverted oil system looks homemade. I can take some pictures. There may be plans in all the paperwork I have for it.
Hey 964SS The system you now have is in line with what I'm looking for . I'm also looking in the direction of the Ellison or Rotac but only know enough at this point to spend money experimenting with something that has already been established . Now , to study what the effects are of mounting it in the upper manner . Thanx for posting . Dennis .
 

964SS

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Hey 964SS The system you now have is in line with what I'm looking for . I'm also looking in the direction of the Ellison or Rotac but only know enough at this point to spend money experimenting with something that has already been established . Now , to study what the effects are of mounting it in the upper manner . Thanx for posting . Dennis .
Worked well right out of the box. Only required a small adjustment.
 
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