Interiors

Discussion in 'Finishing Techniques' started by skier, Dec 17, 2015.

Help Support HomeBuiltAirplanes Forum by donating:

  1. Dec 22, 2015 #61

    SVSUSteve

    SVSUSteve

    SVSUSteve

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2007
    Messages:
    3,648
    Likes Received:
    825
    Location:
    Indianapolis, IN
    Well, I'm pretty sure that you'd find a claim to that sort of authority from the same sort of egotists who think they get to define what constitutes a design project, etc. LOL
     
  2. Dec 22, 2015 #62

    Toobuilder

    Toobuilder

    Toobuilder

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2010
    Messages:
    4,287
    Likes Received:
    3,034
    Location:
    Mojave, Ca
    I fully support unlimited freedom - up to and including the freedom to kill yourself through stupid choices. That said, I'm not going to praise anyone as a "visionary" for ignoring the hard learned lessons of the past.

    As for prevention, that's the realm of peer pressure and public debate, just like this forum.
     
    akwrencher and SVSUSteve like this.
  3. Dec 22, 2015 #63

    Pops

    Pops

    Pops

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2013
    Messages:
    6,679
    Likes Received:
    5,558
    Location:
    USA.
    Simple --- You have the God given right (Natural Right) to do anything that you want to do , as long as it doesn't violate someone else's God given right ( Natural Rights).

    Dan
     
    akwrencher and BJC like this.
  4. Dec 22, 2015 #64

    autoreply

    autoreply

    autoreply

    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2009
    Messages:
    10,738
    Likes Received:
    2,537
    Location:
    Rotterdam, Netherlands
    Well others (passengers, not people on the ground) are a consideration. They can't reasonable judge whether a plane has hidden dangerous deficits. That's where (to us) obvious safety deficits might require enforced action.

    Further, lobby groups like the EAA could do a lot more to improve safety. Capitalism works. Why not pressure insurance companies to increase rates and give a big discount after airframes have passed a "safety inspection"? Worked great for a lot of certified high-end singles where fatalities decreased enormously. Contrary to regulations, it also - by definition - pushes on the highest safety benefit vs cost ratio.
     
    SVSUSteve and Midniteoyl like this.
  5. Dec 23, 2015 #65

    Kyle Boatright

    Kyle Boatright

    Kyle Boatright

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2012
    Messages:
    709
    Likes Received:
    354
    Location:
    Marietta, GA

    Slippery slope. First you have the voluntary safety inspection. Then, when 51% of the owners are having those done, some bright soul enacts legislation requiring it because "most are already doing it." I'd prefer just to be left alone.

    Thank you...
     
  6. Dec 23, 2015 #66

    BJC

    BJC

    BJC

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2013
    Messages:
    8,887
    Likes Received:
    5,737
    Location:
    97FL, Florida, USA
    In the USA, we display a passenger warning that the airplane is experimental.

    Me too.


    BJC
     
    Topaz and Pops like this.
  7. Dec 23, 2015 #67

    Riggerrob

    Riggerrob

    Riggerrob

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2014
    Messages:
    1,125
    Likes Received:
    309
    Location:
    Canada
  8. Mar 9, 2016 #68

    Dan Thomas

    Dan Thomas

    Dan Thomas

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Messages:
    4,714
    Likes Received:
    1,946

    Not pictures of the panel yet, but here are a few bits I've made for my airplane.

    Most recently, a new gascolator:

    P1010471A.jpg P1010473A.jpg P1010475A.jpg

    The old one was an ancient Tillotson, common in old airplanes. Zinc bodies, which are heavy and soft so that the bail gradually deforms the top section and it doesn't seal anymore, and a glass barrel a quarter-inch thick. If you drop it you'll never find another. The new one is of 6061-T6 and has twice the capacity (slows the fuel flow through it to let more contaminants drop out) and the screen is of fine-mesh brass, cut from one of those permanent drip-coffee filters. The screen retainer is stainless welding wire, and the bolt is stainless. The O-rings are common aviation sizes, MS29513-010 and -138. The bracket is to mount the unit to the firewall; the old Tillotson mounted on a brass nipple in a bulkhead fitting. Not really comfortable having the plumbing support the strainer. The difference in weight of old and new was within an ounce or two.

    Next up is a tail tiedown release hook:

    P1010479A.jpg P1010480A.jpg

    For hand-propping. I have an effective park brake but like to make sure by tying the tail. This thing lets me release the tail from the cockpit. Total installed weight was 15 ounces.

    The tailwheel itself we will talk about later. I modified it, with a better castering release than I had before, but didnt paint it. Now it needs that. WIll post pictures of it disassembled sometime.

    P1010483A.jpg

    It started out in 1976 as a steerable but not fully castering tailwheel.

    Engine preoiler: Little old Continentals tend to lose their prime in the oil pump, and they cannot lift the oil up from the tank when they get dry. Most guys take the temperature bulb out of the screen and pump some oil in there, where it runs down into the pump and primes it. Pain to do that all the time. I built this thing maybe seven years ago, and took it off last week to clean it up and take some pictures for guys interested in making one:

    P1010492A.jpg P1010494A.jpg P1010495A.jpg

    It, too, is made of 6061. The plunger uses MS28775-111 O-rings, and the bore is drilled and honed with a pin hone, not something most guys would have access to. If I built it again I would make the plunger with no locking slot and a larger-diameter section on the bottom, polish the plunger, make a separate top collar with an O-ring land in the top of the lower body, and make a locking mechanism as part of the top cap and knob.

    This one has a milled J-slot to allow locking the plunger in. The large spring makes sure it stays locked. The oil flows out of a fitting on the engine oil tank, through quarter-inch hose, into the first pump fitting where the ball is held by a light spring against the inside of the barb fitting, into the pump, out the other side where the other check ball is held against the bottom of the thread bore, and out to another check valve I made to trap the oil is the system. The oil goes through that check into a tee in the oil pressure gauge line, and is forced backeard through the whole engine oil system, lubricating things and finlly ending up in the screen and pump. 15 or 20 strokes does it. That big knob is a rain cap; the pump is clamped to the engine mount tubing right under a cowling piano hinge where water drips on it and wicks down along the plunger into the pump. Not welcome. The whole pump weighs 15.9 ounces and the hoses and check valve a bit more.

    The balls are .187 or so, and finding the right springs can be fun. You need them big enough that they cannot escape into the system, yet small enough that they wont let the ball worm its way into them.

    The weird angles on the top and bottom of the cylinder are to match up with the particular engine mount tubes on my particular installation. It is held with two Adel clamps, with screws in threaded holes in those angled faces.

    One has to weigh (pun intended) the value of stuff against its weight and the loss of performance and payload. This old airplane came out too heavy in the first place, so I get careful with adding weight.
     
  9. Mar 18, 2016 #69

    BobbyZ

    BobbyZ

    BobbyZ

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2010
    Messages:
    228
    Likes Received:
    66
    Location:
    Cape May NJ USA and Varna Bulgaria
    I think the days of choosing between overweight and plush or spartan and svelte could be over if someone wants these days.

    With today's materials and ease of access to things like carbon fiber I feel that a simple,elegant and functional interior are within reach of today's home builder.

    I've recently been involved in a few automotive projects where just a few years ago we'd have used MDF,masonite,foam and glue but instead we used fiberglass,carbon fiber and foam molds to save weight.Not to mention the new fabrics like alcantra and the fake leathers,not only do they hold up better they weigh less and are easier to work with.They hold glue better,require less real structure to anchor down and so on.The same goes for veneers,anymore they are like paper and now can easily be applied to just about anything.Granted it was a high end stereo being installed in a R-8 so the budget matched the car but the stuff to do it is out there and easier to get these days.I just think its time that it makes its way into homebuilding.

    Now at first my airplane will be spartan but in my case I plan to go back and add panels made from carbon fiber and so on after I am finished when money allows.But the one area I wont be skipping is the seating,and while I have some research left to do chances are they'll be custom formed and vacuum bagged carbon fiber because I need proper support from injuries.You can have a plush looking form fitting seat without the bulk but its not easy or cheap :(
     
  10. Apr 6, 2016 #70

    TURBINEONE

    TURBINEONE

    TURBINEONE

    Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2014
    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    36
    Location:
    naples, fl
    Mine just done in Ferrari leather Smells great!
    2016-03-09 10.46.36.jpg
    2016-03-09 10.47.06.jpg
    2016-03-09 07.18.23.jpg 2016-03-11 15.30.08.jpg
     
    Joe Fisher and Floydr92 like this.
  11. Apr 6, 2016 #71

    cluttonfred

    cluttonfred

    cluttonfred

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2010
    Messages:
    6,351
    Likes Received:
    2,208
    Location:
    World traveler
    While this hardcore lightweight Thorp T-18 interior is probably carrying things a bit too far, I think I prefer this end of the spectrum over some of the plush leather, pile carpet and 747 instrument panel treatments seen earlier in this thread.

    NX421TL_007.jpg

    Metal aircraft seem to attract the most elaborate and heavy interior finishing just because people don't like bare metal. Does anyone have any examples of very lightweight ways to dress up the interior of a metal aircraft? Paint is a start, of course, but I'd be interested in other ways to finish the floor and side panels without adding much weight.

    One thought I had was very thin 1/8" or 3 mm adhesive cork sheet cut to fit the side panels. It might look kind of neat as is, or it could be painted or covered with thin fireproof cloth. For the floor, the lightest carpet I have found is sold as speaker enclosure carpet or trunk liner, you can find it anywhere you can get auto parts, and it weighs only .1 lb per sq ft or <500g per sq m. It has a light latex backing, so nothing needed underneath, any color you want as long as it's black or gray.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2016
    Joe Fisher and dcstrng like this.
  12. Apr 6, 2016 #72

    mcrae0104

    mcrae0104

    mcrae0104

    Armchair Mafia Conspirator HBA Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2009
    Messages:
    2,859
    Likes Received:
    1,882
    Location:
    BDU, BJC
    Funny, when I see one of those Lexus-like jobs, I think, 'why did they cover up that beautiful interior?'
     
    Joe Fisher and cluttonfred like this.
  13. Apr 6, 2016 #73

    Mark Z

    Mark Z

    Mark Z

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2012
    Messages:
    518
    Likes Received:
    241
    Location:
    Granbury, Texas USA 0TX0
  14. Apr 6, 2016 #74

    dcstrng

    dcstrng

    dcstrng

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    Messages:
    912
    Likes Received:
    321
    Location:
    VA or NoDak
    The 1970s tube and fabric experimental that I’m salvaging parts off of had (to my eye) an especially lavish interior… much of it was stitched upholstery (mixture of fabric and up-scale Naugahyde with piping on almost all the many seams) over light fiberboard/Masonite and in most cases backed up with insulation – sometimes as thick as two inches… the needle work in the upholstery was about what you’d expect of a fashionable 1970s vintage street-rod, nicely done… now much of it rotted of course.

    It probably is not all that heavy, but to me it looks like hundreds of pounds of superfluous fluff (probably no more than 10-12 pounds total, maybe much less), as I’m used to military austerity and the only proper way to finish an interior is with flat-gray primer or zinc-chromate. Notwithstanding, for me the interior has to be comfortable and that has much more to do with ergonomics than aesthetics (for me). My project will probably go together with a comparatively Spartan interior that is nothing more than required and surely won’t win any dead-grass awards; but borrowing from my long-pavement motorcycling experience, I am giving a fair amount of thought to the actual shape and density of the foam(s) for the seat and control placement as I want to be comfortable for four hours +/-… so different things give different folks “comfort” -- to each his own…
     
  15. Apr 6, 2016 #75

    Dan Thomas

    Dan Thomas

    Dan Thomas

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Messages:
    4,714
    Likes Received:
    1,946
    One has to be careful with metal airplanes. The occupants exhale water vapor with their breathing, and that will condense on the surface of a metal cockpit in cooler weather. If the metal has been covered with anything that will absorb moisture, corrosion can set in rapidly. If the finish allows moist air to creep behind it, it can get trapped there and also make trouble. If anything is permanently attached, inspection becomes difficult.

    There is a closed-cell foam for insulating certified airplanes. It's often used to replaced the fiberglass that was used at manufacture, and which crumbles with vibration and is always falling out and getting tattered during maintenance. Still, that foam is often glued into place.

    Recently I saw a Ford F150 that had been painted, all over, with sprayed-on box liner. Looked like it could last forever on winter roads constantly contaminated with salt and sand and rocks. Maybe something like that would work for airplanes in milder climates.
     
    Joe Fisher likes this.
  16. Apr 6, 2016 #76

    gtae07

    gtae07

    gtae07

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2012
    Messages:
    1,731
    Likes Received:
    1,030
    Location:
    Georgia
    The problem is that bedliner burns something nasty. The fumes and offgassing would get you quickly. Otherwise I'd consider it for the baggage compartment.


    Recently I had a chance to fly in a friend's RV-7 with a full Classic Aero interior and the nice seats. It really made a difference in comfort (with the seats) and noise (with the rest of it) relative to Dad's RV-6, which has only a floor mat and some really abused seat cushions.n

    The seats alone are stupid money, but they felt like sitting in my car (which has good comfy seats). The wife tried them on when we got back. We have agreed that they're worth the money, and probably the rest of the interior, too. She's really sensitive to noise and vibration as seen on previous flights, so keeping her happy is high on the priority list.
     

Share This Page

arrow_white