# Insurance Went Up Again...Any Group Insurance Rates?

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#### HomeBuilt101

##### Well-Known Member
Does anyone know of an insurance underwriter that is willing to work with a group of owners of the same aircraft type where the group would have an organized structure of annual aircraft inspections performed by the group and annual training conducted by a CFI that is current on the type and if this group has a "professional" minded safety system then the underwriter would provide reduced rates for owners who are members of that group?

I heard that the Lancair and the Extra 300 groups had some kind of arrangement so perhaps is anyone knows some information about this that they can share?

Thanks!!!

#### N804RV

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Kitplanes and AOPA Pilot have both published articles recently about insurance going up for older pilots. I have no idea what your age is here. And, I'm not making any assumptions. But, for those of us worried about insurance premiums as we close in on "the golden years", it seems like the only things we can control are 1) having an FAA medical (3rd or higher), instead of "Basic Med"; 2) Flying a certified airplane or a nose-wheel model Van's RV that has completed phase I; and 3) fly more than 50 hrs a year.

So basically, I'll eventually be screwed. Although I fly more than 50hrs/year, and do regular dual instruction for club requirements. I have basic med, and own 2 tailwheel airplanes.

I'm planning on dropping hull coverage when it gets too expensive.

#### Daleandee

##### Well-Known Member
I was with Avemco for many years but found much better coverage, prices, and service here:

Victoria Neuville
Aviation Insurance Resources
301-682-6200 office
301-682-9793 fax
www.air-pros.com

#### TXFlyGuy

##### Well-Known Member
AVEMCO offers a good ground-not-in-motion policy. It actually covers the aircraft while taxiing, as long as full take off power is not applied.

Having an auto engine is a big risk for the underwriters.

There are several T-51 Mustang owners who were quoted $25,000/year for hull coverage. Only two underwriters exist for aircraft, so makes little difference who your actual sales agent is. Starr Aviation is one, and they have my policy. And if you are lucky enough to reach 70 years of age, you can forget getting coverage. #### karmarepair ##### Well-Known Member HBA Supporter I was with Avemco for many years but found much better coverage, prices, and service here: Victoria Neuville Aviation Insurance Resources 301-682-6200 office 301-682-9793 fax www.air-pros.com Victoria Rocks. She'll tailor your coverage to suit your needs. #### rv7charlie ##### Well-Known Member It's not *all* doom & gloom. Age is certainly a factor, but unknown types, high risk (high accident rate) types, and pilot experience are really big factors. Biggest couple of factors, though, are re-insurers' (the guys that insure the insurance underwriters) losses, which can be in any area; not just aviation, and what the investment side of the insurance companies thinks is going to happen with our invested premiums, because that's where they make money. Lots of losses in lots of areas recently, and the investment market in the US has been on a largely upward trend since around 2009. Most trends don't last longer than about 5 years without a 'correction', so investment managers are likely getting nervous. I've seen my a/c ins rates go up & down in rough concert with the stock market since I started flying around 1990. When the companies get nervous about any of those areas, they get conservative and the low time guys and the high risk types of a/c get pushed out of the market 1st. Having said all that, my RV6 ins renewed in May, about 2 months after I turned 70 (yikes!). I guess I was fortunate; there was little change in the premium. Might have even gone down a few bucks; it's a bit over$1200/yr. I've also been flying taildragger RVs since 1994. Experience matters, when the underwriter is just looking at numbers on paper. There are some 'newbees' getting quotes on the same value RV as mine in the $5k range. Really bad time to be entering the market with no experience and no history with an underwriter. TX, the underwriter market may have shrunk in a big way over the last few months, but in the past there were numerous underwriters. I think I've had policies with at least 3 different ones (not agents; actual underwriting companies who's names are on the policy) and I don't think that was all that were out there. Kinda like borrowing money on an a/c. People think there are only a couple of places that lend for a/c, but I borrowed from my work credit union for my 1st RV4. They used the same rate that they gave the employees who were buying 'RVs'. ;-) (That was the 1st, and last, time I borrowed money for a toy. Don't intend to ever do it again.) Charlie #### TFF ##### Well-Known Member RVs because of large pool, get treated similar to Cessna and Piper. Anything else, chances go down. 70 and you want just liability to insure a helicopter, nope. Retractable gear, nope. 172, yes. Does not matter income. I know someone with money and he is not insured in the three aircraft he owns over night. They are all complex high dollar airplanes. His son has to be in there if it’s to be covered. No solo trips for him and his wife anymore. I know a dozen that are like that. Aviation is a bad risk right now for insurance. They don’t want to play. #### Marc W ##### Well-Known Member There is also location, location, location! I am over 70, low time and didn't have any problem renewing a policy and later buying a new policy on a new to me airplane this year. I was offered hull but didn't take it. Both taildraggers. However, there isn't much to hit if you go in at my home airport -mostly dirt, sagebrush or alfalfa. My premium went down by over a third when I moved the airplane from Camarillo, CA(KCMA) to Delta, CO(KAJZ). This from Avemco. People say they are high priced but they sold me insurance when nobody else would. #### PTAirco ##### Well-Known Member I was with Avemco for many years but found much better coverage, prices, and service here: Victoria Neuville Aviation Insurance Resources 301-682-6200 office 301-682-9793 fax www.air-pros.com She found a great deal for me a few years ago for my Maule - I paid$880 per year; \$30k hull and liability. This was with no time in type, I hadn't flown much in 6 years and under 100 hrs tailwheel time! However, after two years it doubled... Because I now have almost 200 hours in it? Because I had no claims? Because they can?
If it goes up again, I'm going for liability only. There is noting on a Maule that I can't fabricate from scratch.