In with a bang, out with a whimper

Homebuilt Aircraft & Kit Plane Forum

Help Support Homebuilt Aircraft & Kit Plane Forum:

cluttonfred

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2010
Messages
9,442
Location
World traveler
3D6869B4-16F2-4D39-ABDC-B4A49E732A55.jpeg

I would say the the Ares was more an example of Scaled Composites doing a company demonstrator to solidify their reputation as an outfit that could explore military projects on a budget. Remember they this was 1990 and the U.S. military was still largely oriented to the Cold War fight. Still, the Ares could have easily evolved into a practical trainer and light attack aircraft (see proposed two-seater above) had it interested a foreign military or larger contractor enough to take it on.

A40BFC7E-394D-45BA-BFA5-FF316673A136.jpg

In an example from the homebuilt world, I think that the Evans VP-2 Volksplane probably belongs here despite my fondness for it. The VP-1 made a huge splash not just in the USA but also in countries around the world, where it was promoted by multiple amateur-built aircraft associations, and there was a lot of demand for a two-seater.

The subsequent VP-2 design met the brief that Evans laid out, essentially a 1+1 design with the capability to take a passenger for a quick hop. The problem is that some VP-2 builders were disappointed with the reality of that brief because they wanted a proper two-seater and the VP-2 just didn’t have the weight capacity, wing area, or power to go beyond the original brief.

Unfortunately, a few years after the VP-2 plans were released Evans decided to get out of the two-seater plans business because of increased liability risk comparted to a single-seater. So we never got to see an Evans take on a true cross-country two-seater in the Volksplane spirit.
 
Last edited:

nickbayer1

Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2021
Messages
9
If ScaleBirds doesn't become another name to add to this list one of my 5-year plan goals is a branch off the LiteFighter design into a 2-seat SxS version that ultimately wouldn't be very far off from the Fury.
Speaking of ScaleBirds, any news pics/videos?

Thanks,

nick
 

Scottiniowa

Active Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2021
Messages
27
Location
Clarksville, Iowa
Very interesting subject,
I wonder how many were designed to snag funds with no intentions of production?
I wonder how many were designed simply based on a dream?, "they could make it better" but later found they couldn't.
I wonder how many, were simply impossible to financially build? . i.e., they might have worked, but every part would add up to more than what other functioning planes cost.
 

BJC

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 7, 2013
Messages
15,131
Location
97FL, Florida, USA
For openers:
I wonder how many were designed to snag funds with no intentions of production?
Moller Air Car
I wonder how many were designed simply based on a dream?, "they could make it better" but later found they couldn't.
Raptor
I wonder how many, were simply impossible to financially build? . i.e., they might have worked, but every part would add up to more than what other functioning planes cost.
Beech Starship


BJC
 

Chris.r.Ingram

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2021
Messages
98
It is safe to say that in today’s world, almost everything makes the list.
every year we get subjected to a new startup that will be taking the aircraft world by storm! Their all new design will go 250 mph on 4.4 gph while hauling 4 adults plus baggage. They expect the cost out the door to be 100k!
I am excited to watch all these electric aircraft startups. Any person with a brain can see that it’s not going to work for what they are trying to sell it as but many fools will soon be parted with their money.
 

Marc Zeitlin

Exalted Grand Poobah
Joined
Dec 11, 2015
Messages
1,132
Location
Tehachapi, CA
...the Ares could have easily evolved into a practical trainer and light attack aircraft (see proposed two-seater above) had it interested a foreign military or larger contractor enough to take it on...
To be honest and fair, no, it couldn't - not in a bazillion years, no matter who was interested, and not without a complete redesign. It was designed as a tank attack aircraft, like a cheap A-10. It had the engine intake on one side, and the gun on the other. Not FAR off center, but off center.

And that was the problem. While the first shell fired from the gun would hit somewhere near where the pilot was aiming on the ground, the rest of them would skew right. The reaction force from the gun would yaw the plane right, and the more shells fired, the further right the nose would yaw. It couldn't hit the side of a barn, and was useless for the purpose for which it was designed, which was firing a gun at something and hitting it.
 
Joined
Apr 20, 2019
Messages
107
It is safe to say that in today’s world, almost everything makes the list.
every year we get subjected to a new startup that will be taking the aircraft world by storm!

That's the Silicon Valley startups' ideal of "disruption". It works a lot better with software and business processes than it does with aircraft design — or other complicated technical fields, as witness the fall of Theranos.
 

mikoman

Active Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2021
Messages
38
Location
Eastern Tennessee
Do engines count?
Hexidyne
DP 100
Don't recall the name but the swash plate pistons parallel with the central drive shaft.

Myers revival and the new Mooney trainer although marketing wasn't defined as a big bang.
MVP Seaplane New Seaplane from MVP Aero Offers Versatile Design and Capabilities
Pöschel Equator Pöschel Equator - Wikipedia
lisa akoya seaplane AKOYA, amphibious light sport airplane : style & versatility - LISA
fly nano seaplane FlyNano Nano - Wikipedia
I love the brochures on MVP and of course Icon. Camping and fishing appeals to a lot of us. The problem was IMHO you are trying to market to 20-40 year olds who are trying to start a family buy house, sports car, motorcycle etc. if you are not priced in a catagory of less than 50k for your product they will purchase the RV, ATV etc before jumping onto their product if at all. pricing in the 100k area as they say" forged about it". Not including time and cost if you are not yet a pilot. What's it cost now anyway to get your private pilot at a local airport?
 

AeroER

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2021
Messages
301
To be honest and fair, no, it couldn't - not in a bazillion years, no matter who was interested, and not without a complete redesign. It was designed as a tank attack aircraft, like a cheap A-10. It had the engine intake on one side, and the gun on the other. Not FAR off center, but off center.

And that was the problem. While the first shell fired from the gun would hit somewhere near where the pilot was aiming on the ground, the rest of them would skew right. The reaction force from the gun would yaw the plane right, and the more shells fired, the further right the nose would yaw. It couldn't hit the side of a barn, and was useless for the purpose for which it was designed, which was firing a gun at something and hitting it.

Besides missing all the requirements imposed on a project for the government.

The Visionare Vantage is another example of a Rutan built demonstrator missing the features required in a real jet, resulting in a redesign of redesigns in an effort to avoid starting over with a clean sheet. On the other hand, he delivered the airplane he promised.
 

jedi

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2009
Messages
3,190
Location
Sahuarita Arizona, Renton Washington, USA
I love the brochures on MVP and of course Icon. Camping and fishing appeals to a lot of us. The problem was IMHO you are trying to market to 20-40 year olds who are trying to start a family buy house, sports car, motorcycle etc. if you are not priced in a catagory of less than 50k for your product they will purchase the RV, ATV etc before jumping onto their product if at all. pricing in the 100k area as they say" forged about it". Not including time and cost if you are not yet a pilot. What's it cost now anyway to get your private pilot at a local airport?

And the Sea Bee before the Icon A5 and the MVP. Any comments (forecasts) on how the Vickers Wave will fair.
Home - Vickers Aircraft Company Ltd

I think it is fair to say that the Thurston lineage of the Colonial Skimmer was a success in a very difficult market. It is a tribute to David Thurston and his design skills in spite of the sales and production difficulties of the companies producing the product. The same can be said for Percival Hopkins Spencer (April 30, 1897 – January 16, 1995)

Colonial Skimmer - Wikipedia
 

jedi

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2009
Messages
3,190
Location
Sahuarita Arizona, Renton Washington, USA
To be honest and fair, no, it couldn't - not in a bazillion years, no matter who was interested, and not without a complete redesign. It was designed as a tank attack aircraft, like a cheap A-10. It had the engine intake on one side, and the gun on the other. Not FAR off center, but off center.

And that was the problem. While the first shell fired from the gun would hit somewhere near where the pilot was aiming on the ground, the rest of them would skew right. The reaction force from the gun would yaw the plane right, and the more shells fired, the further right the nose would yaw. It couldn't hit the side of a barn, and was useless for the purpose for which it was designed, which was firing a gun at something and hitting it.

Interesting. Interested in your opinion Mark. Would it have made a difference if the gun were on the bottom and the engine intake was on the top?
 

D Hillberg

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2010
Messages
1,713
Location
very low low low earth orbit
My helicopter "Rotormouse" fast turbine power all sheet metal design.
BJ Schramm and Dennis Fetters flooded the market with the Helicycle and Mini 500.
Killed the mouse dead.

And the Wind Star had it going in 1995 but funds petered out.... Now at French Valley ......
 

Attachments

  • Executive-businessmen-windstar-helicopter.jpg
    Executive-businessmen-windstar-helicopter.jpg
    113.4 KB · Views: 17
Top