Import Issues of SPG PSRU

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KeithO

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Do you have new suppliers for parts - please let us know how you are coping with the Russian embargo ? If we pick a product for the future, we would like to be confident that the supplier is still going to be there ?

SPG gearboxes are in production for 20+ years, more than 3000 units are made. Most of them are used for aviation. There are 3 SPG gearboxes in production now, different ratios, different bellhousings for Subaru, Honda, Suzuki, BMW, Toyota engines, recommended up to 130, 180 and 350-400 HP. Many of them are flying in USA and Canada. More info Air Trikes: Engines and Conversion Kits.
 

Air Trikes

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Do you have new suppliers for parts - please let us know how you are coping with the Russian embargo ? If we pick a product for the future, we would like to be confident that the supplier is still going to be there ?

I'm a Canadian. I'm "there" for 20+ last year. Air Trikes is not going to disappear because of any Russian president's actions. I have Russian, Belorussian and Ukrainian business partners. Most of them are working with me for more than 10-15 years. They supply parts and components to me the same way as before. All of them are NORMAL people, they are against the war the same as me. I see no reason to use embargo against them. I don't work with Russian government or big Russian oil companies :)

About SPG gearboxes, I expect cargo with them next month. A little more complicated logistics, a little more difficult to pay there but everything is doable.
 

KeithO

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It would be nice if the state department saw it the same way, but they wont. I'm well aware that your parts are not sourced in Canada, but since recent actions trade with Russia is no longer "business as usual". Any American knowingly buying product sourced in Russia would be putting themselves at risk of prosecution. ITAR violations are no joke, federal jail time. The definition of what is restricted under ITAR has been growing exponentially since 911. All of my hunting rifle scopes are ITAR controlled, even the rails that they mount on. I cant take them to Canada under any circumstances, regardless of the fact that Canadians can buy virtually identical products. The recent state department and executive orders cover a great deal more than just what has historically defined by Itar.

Good luck sir, In my opinion you are playing with fire.

I'm a Canadian. I'm "there" for 20+ last year. Air Trikes is not going to disappear because of any Russian president's actions. I have Russian, Belorussian and Ukrainian business partners. Most of them are working with me for more than 10-15 years. They supply parts and components to me the same way as before. All of them are NORMAL people, they are against the war the same as me. I see no reason to use embargo against them. I don't work with Russian government or big Russian oil companies :)

About SPG gearboxes, I expect cargo with them next month. A little more complicated logistics, a little more difficult to pay there but everything is doable.
 

PMD

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It would be nice if the state department saw it the same way, but they wont. I'm well aware that your parts are not sourced in Canada, but since recent actions trade with Russia is no longer "business as usual". Any American knowingly buying product sourced in Russia would be putting themselves at risk of prosecution.
Some very good advice. Unfortunately, since our "Prime Minister's" Father proudly carried a Communist Party card as a student at the Sorbonne and while PM of Canada was a close personal friend of Fidel Castro, you can rest assured that there will be nothing to stop Russian and Belarussian parts from flowing into Canada. We have taken the extreme measure of taking them off of the "Most Favoured Nation" status (along with ONLY North Korea) - and that means a punishing 32% tariff is the only deterrent to doing business with the most corrupt and evil government/country on the planet.
 

KeithO

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I will be entertained when you try explaining that to federal officers after they find you in possession of Russian source contraband. They couldnt care if it was mother Theresa who built it or sold it. I know a former MI state trooper and long time DNR field officer who was prosecuted for possessing a wolf hide after she killed a wolf in self defense while on a hunt in Canada (where wolf hunting is legal). Tht incident cost her the job as field officer and now has her prohibited from ever working for the coastguard, Law enforcement or wildlife agencies for the rest of her life. She sure found out that the way her department worked was different when you were found to be on the wrong side of the "thin blue line".

It is important to examine each situation in detail (and not in this forum). People sometimes think and speak in irresponsibly broad strokes. "When the US decided to", "Ukraine needs to", "Russia must" etc are signs of lazy thinking. Nations aren't people, they aren't unitary actors. Every nation is composed of lots of governmental, civic, economic, and cultural sub-entities and each have their own interests and power. They vary a LOT from situation to situation.
Blunt tools, in the shop or in other realms, can produce bad results unless a blunt tool is deliberately chosen as the best option.
 

Vigilant1

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I will be entertained when you try explaining that to federal officers after they find you in possession of Russian source contraband.
If a purchaser has jumped through the CBP ("Customs" ) hoops, then they have fulfilled the requirements. OTOH, if the purchaser deliberately breaks the law, they should expect to be prosecuted.

Unless you know that a US person purchasing a particular item from a particular business violates US law, then your accusations are irresponsible. There are sanctions in place, but they are complex and certainly not universal.
 
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KeithO

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Vassile has admitted publicly he has no plan of changing his sources. Apparently the Canadian government doesnt care. But US customers knowingly buying this product (on the basis that it is "Canadian") run considerable risk. I am personally not willing to take that risk when there are other sources where we know that the parts are sourced in the US. The gyrocopter folks who also previously got components from the same sources as Vassille have shut down that product, so they apparently do not think it is legal to keep buying from those sources.
 

Vigilant1

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US customers should follow the law. There are different rules for individuals purchasing items for individual use than for US businesses purchasing items for resale. There are also different rules for "informal sales" (generally less than $2500) to individuals than other sales.

The rules are complex. "Contraband" has a specific legal definition (actually, several of them). Anyone acting on something they heard or an assumption they made based on what somebody else did is just hurting himself. Moreover, he could also be spreading a bunch of bad info that will hurt the livelihood of others and, ironically, be counter to actual US policy and interests.
 
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TXFlyGuy

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Today, Russia is a parliamentary democracy. There are communists that live there, for sure. Just like there is an active communist party in Japan, and the United States.
 

Air Trikes

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If a purchaser has jumped through the CBP ("Customs" ) hoops, then they have fulfilled the requirements. OTOH, if the purchaser deliberately breaks the law, they should expect to be prosecuted.

Unless you know that a US person purchasing a particular item from a particular business violates US law, then your accusations are irresponsible. There are sanctions in place, but they are complex and certainly not universal.

I agree with Vigilant1.

I don't like political discussions at Aviation forums. I honestly sell good product made by honest people, pilots and aviation enthusiasts in Russia, Belorussia, Ukraine, Baltic countries etc. My previous post was deleted. I apologize if I violated some rules of the Forum.
 

Brünner

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I agree with Vigilant1.

I don't like political discussions at Aviation forums. I honestly sell good product made by honest people, pilots and aviation enthusiasts in Russia, Belorussia, Ukraine, Baltic countries etc. My previous post was deleted. I apologize if I violated some rules of the Forum.

I don't think this discussion is political, even though politics have a lot of influence right now.
A solid business needs to have contingency plans for several situations, including what to do if a supply chain gets disrupted for whatever reason. Nobody here is judging the credibility of suppliers from Russia, Belarus and the like, and I can assure you that I would personally love to do business with Russians.
But unfortunately given the current state of affairs, it is quite possible that doing business with them will be more and more difficult, even after the war.
As such, a business needs to prepare accordingly.
 

Vigilant1

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. . . like not being able to legally buy Vassille's gearbox., made in Russia.
You are alleging that US private customers cannot legally purchase these products from Airtrikes. Please substantiate that allegation.

It is important, and the honest thing to do. If you can...

Saying that you prefer not to do it, or think it improper, etc is quite different. You are making a statement of fact.
 

Vigilant1

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Do you have new suppliers for parts - please let us know how you are coping with the Russian embargo ?
Ref above: There is no US 'embargo" against Russia. Again, 'embargo" has a specific meaning.
The US has imposed targeted sanctions. Here's a summary of them. They concentrate on affecting the Russian financial sector (e.g. banks), Russian state-owned enterprises, and certain named individuals. It would have been easy to craft them more broadly (e.g. to prohibit importation of goods originating in Russia), but that wasn't done. This isn't supposed to be the economic equivalent of carpet bombing, and that's for good reason, IMO.

Folks are trying to legally make a living in very difficult circumstances. Let's not make a very bad situation worse.
 
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KeithO

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Neither of us is readily able to prove their point. Import/export regulations are very complex. The use of the object in question is "multi use". An SPG gearbox may get used on a recreational trike, but it could just as easily be used on a foreign predator type drone, in other words an "offensive weapon system". We have seen this with the 912/914/915 engines supplied by rotax being used on offensive drones by the US and Rotax trying to deny they were aware of it.

To figure this out, one would have to retain the services of a lawyer who works in this field. The first question the lawyer would ask about the planned acquisition of product containing components from Russia and Belarus would be whether you have an alternate source known to come from Allied countries, as opposed to what are currently "enemy" countries? Because proceeding down this path could cost a lot of money and ultimately the answer could be that it is prohibited. Its not as if there is a special price incentive or other good business reason to deal with parts from Russian suppliers.

You are alleging that US private customers cannot legally purchase these products from Airtrikes. Please substantiate that allegation.

It is important, and the honest thing to do. If you can...

Saying that you prefer not to do it, or think it improper, etc is quite different. You are making a statement of fact.
 

KeithO

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You will note from the press releases that there is particular emphasis on aviation related transactions. Nothing that gets down to the granularity of propeller reduction drives, but this is for sure not just actions against the banking sector.
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Ref above: There is no US 'embargo" against Russia. Again, 'embargo" has a specific meaning.
The US has imposed targeted sanctions. Here's a summary of them. They concentrate on affecting the Russian financial sector (e.g. banks), Russian state-owned enterprises, and certain named individuals. It would have been easy to craft them more broadly (e.g. to prohibit importation of goods originating in Russia), but that wasn't done. This isn't supposed to be the economic equivalent of carpet bombing, and that's for good reason, IMO.

Folks are trying to legally make a living in very difficult circumstances. Let's not make a very bad situation worse.
 

bhooper360

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(...)he could also be spreading a bunch of bad info that will hurt the livelihood of others and, ironically, be counter to actual US policy and interests.
👍
The recent state department and executive orders cover a great deal more than just what has historically defined by Itar.
you are not allowed to use my shapeoko router.
 

Vigilant1

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You will note from the press releases that there is particular emphasis on aviation related transactions. Nothing that gets down to the granularity of propeller reduction drives, but this is for sure not just actions against the banking sector.
View attachment 125830
Fundamentals: Do you know what "export" means? That's what those press releases are about, per their titles.

This entire discussion is about the import.of PSRUs.
 
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