Ikea style folding CNC table?

Discussion in 'Workshop Tips and Secrets / Tools' started by FritzW, Apr 5, 2019.

Help Support HomeBuiltAirplanes Forum by donating:

  1. Apr 6, 2019 #21

    MadRocketScientist

    MadRocketScientist

    MadRocketScientist

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2009
    Messages:
    1,435
    Likes Received:
    892
    Location:
    Canterbury, New Zealand, Earth, Milky Way Galaxy.
    I used flood coolant (made a mess to clean up) and cut about 0.25mm deep at 160mm/min, 6000rpm spindle speed. I used a single flute 1/8" Onsrud carbide cutter but in hindsight a 2 or 4 flute may have been better.
     
  2. Apr 6, 2019 #22

    FritzW

    FritzW

    FritzW

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2011
    Messages:
    3,449
    Likes Received:
    3,051
    Location:
    Las Cruces, NM
    I was going about twice as fast but cutting about half as deep. I was using a two flute 1/8" mill but they were mystery ebay bits (handfull for $20). They're great for plywood. They're like disposable razors, if they get a little dull just throw them away.
     
    MadRocketScientist likes this.
  3. Apr 6, 2019 #23

    erkki67

    erkki67

    erkki67

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2010
    Messages:
    1,478
    Likes Received:
    151
    Location:
    Romont / Fribourg / Switzerland
    D65839AB-B067-4AC0-A3E2-9C481C0AE076.jpeg

    In love this tilted position of the table, here we have about 45deg, I’d like to have even more tilted table but with a fix undercarriage. The aim is to have a solid 4896 router with a small footprint on rollers like the Fritzrouter.

    A43E62DC-F739-4D98-8E2D-B17F07003839.jpeg
     
  4. Apr 6, 2019 #24

    rtfm

    rtfm

    rtfm

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2008
    Messages:
    3,174
    Likes Received:
    565
    Location:
    Brisbane, Australia
    Hi
    Just build the table as-is and lock it in any position you want. No need to have a special design. Just adds work and needless options for our resident guru.
     
  5. Apr 6, 2019 #25

    addicted2climbing

    addicted2climbing

    addicted2climbing

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2012
    Messages:
    935
    Likes Received:
    258
    Location:
    Glendale, CA
    At a time when maker slide parts exist why on earth would anyone build a CNC machine with 3D printed carriages.. 3D printing has its place but this is not one of them and makerslide is crazy cheap and easy to work with.
     
    ScaleBirdsScott and proppastie like this.
  6. Apr 6, 2019 #26

    proppastie

    proppastie

    proppastie

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2012
    Messages:
    3,663
    Likes Received:
    1,059
    Location:
    NJ
    So you do not plunge and just go real slow?
     
  7. Apr 6, 2019 #27

    FritzW

    FritzW

    FritzW

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2011
    Messages:
    3,449
    Likes Received:
    3,051
    Location:
    Las Cruces, NM
    I completely disagree. This is the perfect place for 3D printed parts like bearing mounts. Makerslide doesn't come in long enough pieces (that I could find) to build a 4x8 machine and the longest piece they have only ships to the US and Canada. By them time you buy enough of it to make a 4x8 capable machine (and splice enough short pieces together) and buy all the proprietary rollers it's not so cheap. And shipping, even the short pieces, to Australia or Switzerland puts it out of the running.

    It may come in longer pieces and there may be overseas distributors but I couldn't find any.
     
    Bill-Higdon likes this.
  8. Apr 6, 2019 #28

    FritzW

    FritzW

    FritzW

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2011
    Messages:
    3,449
    Likes Received:
    3,051
    Location:
    Las Cruces, NM
    You can either plunge the bit or go in from an edge or you can do a spiral lead in (go into the material at an angle from above. The speed you cut in inches/min depends on a lot of factors. What your after is proper chip load (google that if your interested).
     
  9. Apr 6, 2019 #29

    proppastie

    proppastie

    proppastie

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2012
    Messages:
    3,663
    Likes Received:
    1,059
    Location:
    NJ
    if the machine flexes, causes chatter/tool breakage, tool stall. ....chip load is too high.....certainly a stiffer machine would allow chip loads up to the maximum of the spindle hp. But if you are going to use Dremel tool it does look like this machine will work.
     
  10. Apr 6, 2019 #30

    addicted2climbing

    addicted2climbing

    addicted2climbing

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2012
    Messages:
    935
    Likes Received:
    258
    Location:
    Glendale, CA
    Fritz,
    If the issue is overseas/ global sourcing than I see your point but there are so many structural aluminum extrusion companies popping up that just seems like a no brainer to use a more rigid bearing structure. However if all your going to cut is plywood for the Ranger than it will likely be OK. I spent 30+ years designing linear motion systems long before the maker movement existed and now its cheap and affordable so why not use a better product. There is a product that has a V groove edge on both sides in steel that can be attached to any flat surface or square tube and it can even be made in whatever country people are in and then just buy all the V groove wheels online and they come in a small bag.
     
    ScaleBirdsScott likes this.
  11. Apr 23, 2019 #31

    rtfm

    rtfm

    rtfm

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2008
    Messages:
    3,174
    Likes Received:
    565
    Location:
    Brisbane, Australia
    Hi Fritz,
    So, let me see if I understand this correctly. The actual table top (which includes the wings) is actually made from two pieces of MDF, since they are only 4ft wide. The 4ft x 8ft waste sheet then goes on top of the torsion box.

    Do I have it right?

    Any chance of posting the cut sheets on groups.io?

    Cheers,
    Duncan
     
  12. Apr 23, 2019 #32

    FritzW

    FritzW

    FritzW

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2011
    Messages:
    3,449
    Likes Received:
    3,051
    Location:
    Las Cruces, NM
    I've got a free morning tomorrow, I'll try to post some DXF's

    The wings are wider than 4' so there's room to cut a 4x8 sheet. The top is in sections so the pieces will fit on a 4x8 sheet and there's a replaceable spoil board on top of the table.
     
  13. Apr 24, 2019 #33

    erkki67

    erkki67

    erkki67

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2010
    Messages:
    1,478
    Likes Received:
    151
    Location:
    Romont / Fribourg / Switzerland
    this thing is going to be great.
     
  14. May 3, 2019 #34

    Hephaestus

    Hephaestus

    Hephaestus

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2014
    Messages:
    943
    Likes Received:
    209
    Location:
    YMM
    I've said it before at v1 engineering forums...

    But the ideal would be to switch to the MPCNC Burley, modify feet slightly for the load being angled, counterweight the Y with a couple pulleys and some 1/8" steel cable and tip it up to 105° or so like a panel saw (think the wall saw at home Depot)

    That's probably the easiest and best space saving solution.

    Would be awesome combined with a good dust extraction shoe to keep the mess down too.
     
  15. May 27, 2019 #35

    erkki67

    erkki67

    erkki67

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2010
    Messages:
    1,478
    Likes Received:
    151
    Location:
    Romont / Fribourg / Switzerland
    Fritz, is your table operable in an angle like this one;

    greenBullV2_size_05x10_angle_60dg_f1_no4thaxis_f2_nolasergantry_f3_nolaser_f4_wilaserready_.png

    This would be a space saving option for me!

    Rgds Erkki
     
  16. May 28, 2019 #36

    ScaleBirdsScott

    ScaleBirdsScott

    ScaleBirdsScott

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2015
    Messages:
    954
    Likes Received:
    618
    Location:
    Uncasville, CT
    So, I see the intended utility of saving space with a slant-bed machine. But at the end of the day, I still will always suggest that if someone can physically fit a flat bed table horizontal into a workshop, even if it takes up a lot of space, it's so much more useful to just have the full table there. Not even in terms of ease of operation (of which the benefits are legion) but in that when you're not running the machine you can in fact load that sucker up with various stuff. Countless times I've used the router table bed to layout large parts that don't fit on the narrower assembly table, to roll out large prints and drawings, to hold half-finished surfaces and other assemblies, boxes, a place to lay out and arrange gear when packing for an event, etc etc. Or somewhere to do some building when the main assembly table was occupied, etc etc.

    Of course, it also means all that stuff needs to get yeeted out the way when it's time to do cutting, but even that isn't a hard and fast rule. I'll admit to occasionally just throwing some small part down in one corner of the bed because I had some other stuff hanging out on the far end of the table. But in general I'm either cutting, or I'm doing something else. Only rarely do I have to actually play musical chairs with equipment.

    And then under the machine, that's just more storage space. Bins, boxes, accessories for equipment, etc. It also happens to be a decent place to store patterns and templates I've found.

    If you're a picky or Heaven Forbid professional person who never lets the streams cross, where every tool and piece of equipment needs to be kept clean and ready to use and never misappropriated, then yeah, a fullsize CNC router takes up a good chunk of floorspace for a single task, and maybe that could be a crippling compromise. But if you're used to working in a tight workshop and are a little more fast and loose, you can integrate the router table into your space in ways that other equipment just can't.

    If you physically just can't fit such a table in your shop, then that's where slant beds and stuff might be the only possible option. And they are pretty neat. But they actually do completely eat up whatever space they do take up. There's no multi-tasking that space.

    As for a folding CNC, I'm somewhat of the opinion that the amount of time to unfold, setup, level, zero, mount material, and then the reverse at the end of the day, means that the machine will not get used as much. It'll always be an equation of "by the time I've got the machine good, and made sure it's all accurate, could I have just done this by hand?" If there's multiple sheets to cut, that's one thing, and I assume that's the primary utility intended for a folding or portable CNC (and I am a fan of that) But for knocking out one replacement rib or throwing some extrusion down to drill some holes... that usually doesn't warrant doing the CAM much less spending 30+ minutes to setup a machine. But there are times when having that machine always on standby if I need to knock something out quick does keep the inertia low and keep me willing to experiment a bit.
     
    MadRocketScientist likes this.
  17. May 28, 2019 #37

    RCBinChicken

    RCBinChicken

    RCBinChicken

    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2019
    Messages:
    26
    Likes Received:
    1
    Of all the words I was expecting to encounter in this forum, that wasn't one of them! :p

    That aside, I think your point about the general utility of a regular table is a valid one.
     
  18. May 28, 2019 #38

    Hephaestus

    Hephaestus

    Hephaestus

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2014
    Messages:
    943
    Likes Received:
    209
    Location:
    YMM
    But if it's a CNC machine you're not going to use it as a regular table. And if you do - then machine setup will take a while because it's been bumped tweaked adjusted etc. That's how we come to the problem of the long setup times.

    My MPCNC I don't have 30min setups, 2 minutes to throw the right bit in it, and it's ready to run. Because the parts are generally drawn in fusion - it's painless, actually more work to print and hand cut because the hp designjet is so infrequently used that I usually need to go plug it in, chase the cables and get it plugged back into the server. Turn it on, warm it up, check the ciss system, print...
     
  19. May 28, 2019 #39

    ScaleBirdsScott

    ScaleBirdsScott

    ScaleBirdsScott

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2015
    Messages:
    954
    Likes Received:
    618
    Location:
    Uncasville, CT
    Generally I've never noticed a huge issue with machine accuracy from lightly abusing my table with the burden of holding random stuff from time to time. 80% of the time it's just got drills, raw material, and the still-stuck-down remnants of the last sheet I cut. Generally the biggest accuracy loss is natural warping of my MDF spoilboard which tends to shift over time to give me an average of bed flatness of +/- .020 with the occasional extreme deviation. That is frustrating but I clock it up to physics and the low cost of my machine. Truth be told I can always surface the bed dead flat when I absolutely need to, but within a few days it's regained some topology. Good thing cutting sheet metal and drilling holes in barstock is very forgiving as I can just assume my material is "dummy thicc" and factor for deviation and keep going no matter what the bed does. As long as the gantry stays squared up.

    Obviously, I'm not hammering or pounding things or doing other heavy fab work on the router: it's a temporary storage platform and layout surface.

    And when I mean extended setup time I'm referring to the collapsing or folding type machines that you need to pull out of a corner, deploy the table, install the gantry, plug everything in, etc. If it's really well done design and you're experienced, maybe it only takes 10 minutes? Certainly better than no router. And for making exact things to a given plan, even hours of CAD and CAM and an hour of machine setup can be worth it for a 10 minute cut job, if that resulting part is exactly what you need.
     
  20. May 29, 2019 #40

    aeromomentum

    aeromomentum

    aeromomentum

    Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2014
    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    31
    Location:
    Stuart, FL USA
    While it can be hard to find and more expensive they make waterproof MDF that is much more dimensionally stable.
     

Share This Page

arrow_white