# Icon A5 Update - No Deliveries!?!

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#### cheapracer

##### Well-Known Member
Log Member
According to GAMA, ICON shipped 41 A5 aircraft on 2019, bringing their all-time shipments to 100.
Well at 90 million investment, and a 30% profit margin, I hope they sold for close to 3 million each.

#### bmcj

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
I hear that Dana is looking for an Icon.

#### PMD

##### Well-Known Member
Well at 90 million investment, and a 30% profit margin, I hope they sold for close to 3 million each.
T.O. Bill

#### TFF

##### Well-Known Member
Your argument is the plans built argument. Cheap, simple at the cost of not being top of the technological pyramid. Scrounging is building.

Speaking of pyramids, the Icon management is an upside down Pyramid. If you read the info on those people, they are not doing it for the love of aviation, except for the engineer who crashed and the chief test pilot. I believe both have been members here and the biplane forum. If they don’t get a bunch for the product, they don’t get a bunch in their Christmas stocking. Aviation on a whole is weak on management. One of the few business you can still go from janitor to president. If you are capable, you can rise to a pretty decent title job quick. If you are smart, you can hit hard in a industry that is made from people that love it. Pure Machiavellian in a sea of dear in headlights. Pull out the machine gun.

Some guy trying to sell plans out of his garage is doing it because in his soul, he has to. . A cool consumer product is not ever meant to be cheap, it’s meant to make money for someone.

Log Member

#### sming

##### Well-Known Member
I would be interested, however (and I believe that this general thought process was discussed in another thread about low cost composite aircraft that don't exist) in some evidence that ANYONE knows (not just theorizes, but actually knows and has evidence of) low cost carbon composite manufacturing at ICON's quality level within the range of expected volumes for this aircraft (lets say 25 - 500 units/year).
I know nothing about Icon quality level, but every european LSA and gliders manufacturers are kind of cheaper?
Pipistrel, like the Virus is 70K€, and the more luxurious like the blackshape, jmb vl3, elixir, etc... are more like 150K€ but still half the price of the Icon? They all use the same engine...

##### Well-Known Member
OK I have checked in on Icon's progress from time to time. On their business model I have only 1 general comment. Until they can produce a LSA aircraft that costs the same as a typical car, and yes I mean typical, about 20 to 30K there will never be a long line of folks willing to become the next batch of LSA pilots.
Perhaps you're right, but I think people either want to fly or they don't and won't be motivated to fly at any price. Those who want to fly make it happen somehow....either renting, building, buying cheap, or if fortunate they can afford whatever appeals to them. I'm sure Icon's target market is the same people who drive Porsches, Ferarris, etc.

#### Marc Zeitlin

##### Exalted Grand Poobah
I know nothing about Icon quality level, but every european LSA and gliders manufacturers are kind of cheaper?
Pipistrel, like the Virus is 70K€, and the more luxurious like the blackshape, jmb vl3, elixir, etc... are more like 150K€ but still half the price of the Icon? They all use the same engine...
Are they amphibians, with retractable gear, folding wings, a CAP, AOA indication, etc.? There's no question that the ICON A5 is more expensive than all other LSA's, and that it's way too expensive, and that management decisions led to the excess costing. But it's also more complex, higher quality than ANY of the others, and even at the 70K€ to 150K€, level, those planes are not "cheap", or even "low cost". That was my point with that particular comment. Bring an LSA in for the average cost of a car (say \$30K), and now you're talking "low cost".

#### BBerson

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
I think the AOA instrument and lack of "glass" was a sound management choice.
Not sure what exactly is meant by higher quality. Is it perfect curves and paint or is it long lasting, light weight, easy maintenance, affordable, simple?
The Cory Bird "Symmetry" was hailed as "perfection". But was NOT designed for mass manufacture or usable by the masses with it's 4000 foot runway required. Is that called quality?
It's a balance. My 30 year old Honda Civics have a good balance. The newer ones are too complex.
I think a simple amphibian could be engineered without full retractable wheels. Sort of like wheel skis, some are full retractable and some are fixed. With fixed narrow wheels that work on water the wheels down fatal crash flip over is eliminated.

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#### dog

##### Well-Known Member
the icon is clearly over priced and a disapointment
but from the picture further up in the thread it can sure take a hit and still look like an airplane, realy
wow,takes out trees and retaining walls and looks rebuildable,so the "exrtra" weight is doing something, also the weight exemption that icon
got for LSA is a precident that could help other
manufacturers

#### ToddK

##### Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
I could be wrong, but it seems like Icon might be essentially selling airplane for SeaRey.

#### Marc Zeitlin

##### Exalted Grand Poobah
I could be wrong, but it seems like Icon might be essentially selling airplane for SeaRey.
What does that even mean?

#### Dana

##### Super Moderator
Staff member
What does that even mean?
All the people that get attracted by Icon's marketing videos and then find they can't afford an Icon, but realize a Searey is just as much fun...

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