# Airplane For SaleHummel Ultracruiser

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#### Daleandee

##### Well-Known Member
I do have a little “secret sauce” but I find it very difficult to sell or even give away.

It may be that this builder or buyer used his “secret sauce” but wants to keep the secret private.

"I have a set of scales right here we can use!"

#### ScaleBirdsScott

##### Well-Known Member
Does filling the fuselage with helium balloons count as weight reduction?

#### Victor Bravo

##### Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
I do have a little “secret sauce” but I find it very difficult to sell or even give away.

The Colonel's secret blend of eleven herbs and spices? Is it wingtip-lickin' good?

If you can actually make fat ultralights compliant, by all rights and reason you should be the most highly sought-after guy in all of aviation !

#### VegasSky

##### Member
It may be that this builder or buyer used his “secret sauce” but wants to keep the secret private.

Sriracha ?

#### R90s

##### Member
Supporting Member
“Ha! Your Jedi mind tricks won’t work on me…”
-some likely offensive stereotype in some famous movie

#### MACOWA

##### Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
I've really never seen an effective U/L that actually made weight. Most all are flying "fat". If one is flying an accepted 103 design and it is built and flown accordingly, it has been my experience that the authorities can have some (limited) understanding. Last I checked the fine for overweight and/or improper operation is $1000 no appeal ! I know of only one case where this was levied, and in my opinion the guy deserved it. #### Daleandee ##### Well-Known Member It was rumored (I wasn't there to see it) that many moons ago at Sun-N-Fun a FAA guy walked over to a single seat Titan Tornado that had a 447 Rotax on it. As he looked it over he noticed a placard on the panel that said, "Empty Weight 253 - Gross 550". He then looked a the builder/pilot and said, "Nice ultralight" and walked away ... #### crusty old aviator ##### Well-Known Member Supporting Member I've really never seen an effective U/L that actually made weight. Most all are flying "fat". If one is flying an accepted 103 design and it is built and flown accordingly, it has been my experience that the authorities can have some (limited) understanding. Last I checked the fine for overweight and/or improper operation is$1000 no appeal ! I know of only one case where this was levied, and in my opinion the guy deserved it.
I wonder whatever happened to the goomer that flew his “fat” UL autogyro to Wash DC, landed it on the mall, and tried to deliver letters to all the members of Congress for some cause. He didn’t get too far, but the big question was, ”what would they charge him with?”

#### Bigshu

##### Well-Known Member
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#### [email protected]

##### Well-Known Member
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My Honcho ultralight weighed 255 pounds with 440 including starter, battery, welded aluminum gas tank, altimeter, airspeed, CHT, disc brakes.
Sometimes I carried a throw chute only to be legal. I believe the wings weighed 32 pounds and one of the best in the industry.

#### MACOWA

##### Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
I saw a recent video by Dennis Brooks yesterday, (he's built a few Ultra Cruisers, and an H5) where he was weighing his latest UC build. Wings off, with oil in it he was getting 201. His commentary was he needed to deduct the oil weight, and he'd weighed the wings at 45 pounds, so he came out around 243? Anyway, he'd changed to light wheels, had done something with the landing gear, and was very careful on the build. He was speculating that he might be able to put a canopy on it, which is usually not possible to make weight. I've had several UC builders tell me it's very possible to make weight, you just have to build light, and not put any frills on it. Check out his you tube channel to see the series on this build.
I've been watching Dennis's videos since the get go. A master builder ! I think we all miss Spike a lot. I've seen the video you mentioned and watched the build videos on that U/C. The kit that I recieved is built to maximum lightness, any compromise in its structure would compromise safety. We all live and operate in different areas of the country and must build accordingly. 2 ply wheelbarrow tires & wheels would be a disaster around here. The Hummel plans make it clear that a canopy will put you overweight, the landing gear as well, has only one U/L option the others on the plan will put you over as well. Is lubricating oil an engine part ? A U/C built to 254 # is indeed possible But in doing so one must accept real limitations in its operation.

#### Bigshu

##### Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
I've been watching Dennis's videos since the get go. A master builder ! I think we all miss Spike a lot. I've seen the video you mentioned and watched the build videos on that U/C. The kit that I recieved is built to maximum lightness, any compromise in its structure would compromise safety. We all live and operate in different areas of the country and must build accordingly. 2 ply wheelbarrow tires & wheels would be a disaster around here. The Hummel plans make it clear that a canopy will put you overweight, the landing gear as well, has only one U/L option the others on the plan will put you over as well. Is lubricating oil an engine part ? A U/C built to 254 # is indeed possible But in doing so one must accept real limitations in its operation.
I think Terry told Dennis that the empty weight is dry weight, so no oil in the sump. Not sure if that's accurate or not. How's your build going?

#### Bigshu

##### Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
My Honcho ultralight weighed 255 pounds with 440 including starter, battery, welded aluminum gas tank, altimeter, airspeed, CHT, disc brakes.
Sometimes I carried a throw chute only to be legal. I believe the wings weighed 32 pounds and one of the best in the industry.
That's clever using the chute allowance like that. Is the Honcho all metal?

#### challenger_II

##### Well-Known Member
Tube n sailcloth ultralight, with a wing built like a bridge truss. REALLY like that wing!

#### crusty old aviator

##### Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
I think Terry told Dennis that the empty weight is dry weight, so no oil in the sump. Not sure if that's accurate or not. How's your build going?
You can do that. Some include oil weight in the EW for convenience, but we’re still taught to calculate engine oil weight in Private Pilot groundschool.

#### Turd Ferguson

##### Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
I think Terry told Dennis that the empty weight is dry weight, so no oil in the sump. Not sure if that's accurate or not.
The correct answer is "undrainable oil"
Technically, it should be filled to capacity then drained, the residual oil that does not drain out is part of the empty weight.

When Part 23 airplanes showed up, 23.29 required full operating fluids to be part of the empty weight (except fuel).
Auxiliary fluids like water or methanol for enhanced engine performance, potable water, or lavatory precharge are not included in empty weight.

#### robertl

##### Well-Known Member
My Honcho ultralight weighed 255 pounds with 440 including starter, battery, welded aluminum gas tank, altimeter, airspeed, CHT, disc brakes.
Sometimes I carried a throw chute only to be legal. I believe the wings weighed 32 pounds and one of the best in the industry.

I declare, another Honcho driver. Had one back in the 90's, bought it and hauled it home on a boat trailer, put the wings on it and started flying. It only had a single cylinder 18 hp Cuyuna engine and a 5 gal plastic tank and we never did a W/B on it. 48 mph WOT, checked by my wife while I was flying next to her car. Ah, the good ole days.
Bob

#### Bigshu

##### Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
The correct answer is "undrainable oil"
Technically, it should be filled to capacity then drained, the residual oil that does not drain out is part of the empty weight.

When Part 23 airplanes showed up, 23.29 required full operating fluids to be part of the empty weight (except fuel).
Auxiliary fluids like water or methanol for enhanced engine performance, potable water, or lavatory precharge are not included in empty weight.
Curious how part 23 stuff gets applied to "ultralight vehicles". If it's not an airplane, which rules do or don't apply?

#### MACOWA

##### Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
I think Terry told Dennis that the empty weight is dry weight, so no oil in the sump. Not sure if that's accurate or not. How's your build going?
Curious how part 23 stuff gets applied to "ultralight vehicles". If it's not an airplane, which rules do or don't apply?
I think Terry told Dennis that the empty weight is dry weight, so no oil in the sump. Not sure if that's accurate or not. How's your build going?
The build is steady as she goes. Stuffing the 503 into the Hummel motor box from the bottom up has proven to be interesting but it looks like it will work out OK. Fun with Cleco's !