Human Powered Aircraft - Olympic sport?

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topspeed100

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That is a cool aeroplane have to admit.

What would be even cooler was human/solarpowered hybrid aeroplane...I figure you could go beyond 200 km/h at 12 000 meters.
 

SVSUSteve

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Oh please. People will do anything to get attention. The only reason he's pitching this as an "Olympic sport" is because he knows it will get press coverage in England right now because that's about all that's going on over there.

I figure you could go beyond 200 km/h at 12 000 meters.
I'm not even going to try to point out the issues with that. It's such a ludicrous idea that it's not worthy of a scientific rebuttal.
 

SVSUSteve

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Just because it's made into a crude little drawing doesn't mean it's doing anything but being the dream of a delusional few.
 

SVSUSteve

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You mean besides the fact that you'd either have to be in a protective suit and oxygen mask or a very well sealed and pressurized cockpit at 39,000 or 40,000 feet etc? The former is not a valid option to most pilots and the latter is probably going to add so much weight and complexity that your little dream becomes laughable. There are just better solutions to the situations where high altitude and relatively high speed are desirable. That's the problem with the "electric" or "hybrid" light aircraft movement as the technology currently exists.
 

topspeed100

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You mean besides the fact that you'd either have to be in a protective suit and oxygen mask or a very well sealed and pressurized cockpit at 39,000 or 40,000 feet etc? The former is not a valid option to most pilots and the latter is probably going to add so much weight and complexity that your little dream becomes laughable.
No it is not laughable. You have to make the structure in mid piece where the passengers are stronger anyway since they are inside the wing structure and also insulated, that it comes nearly with the territory the pressure vessel. Maybe the windows have to be a little smaller than expected..I actually already reduced their size.

Since the folks inside themselves also make the atmosphere there it will be in relation to other systems incredibly light ( as is the landing gear retraction and flaps if needed ). You have no idea how many things I have considered in this craft before I published it.

One thing it cannot do is go near speed of sound nor carry bags or very many fat people. What is does provide is "free" ride and good conditions for pedallers..free of pollution at least. With it drawbacks it is not going to beat the present airliner system before the oil runs out worldwide.

Furthermore the volume that need to be pressurised is 80-85 m3...for 50 people..due to aerodynamical and efficiency driven realities there is not room like in the present day airliners. This is a pure machine.
 
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sachaknoop

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back to the subject please?
I am just very curious if human powered flight will be possible at higher speeds than proven before. So if there are any new real life developements I would love to be informed.
Sacha
 

topspeed100

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back to the subject please?
I am just very curious if human powered flight will be possible at higher speeds than proven before. So if there are any new real life developements I would love to be informed.
Sacha

No I dont think the pure HBA can be bettered more than 10-20 prosent ( Musculair II has 44 km/h clocked ). Pure night flying solar plane with similar power specs at 12 km goes 77 km/h ( but could go much faster without night flyer batteries ).
 
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autoreply

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back to the subject please?
I am just very curious if human powered flight will be possible at higher speeds than proven before. So if there are any new real life developements I would love to be informed.
Sacha
No, it won't. The problem is that drag increases at the cube of the speed increase. 2 times as fast is 8 times the power. Now, for low speeds that's not entirely valid (induced drag), so doubling the speed of an HPA would only require around 4.5 times the original power. Reducing the wing area would help a bit, but not nearly enough.

Yes, you can probably significantly improve the best existing HPA's and I've in fact been part of exactly such a team. But more than a 20-40% reduction in drag is simply over the limits of materials and especially human physiological limitations. If we assume Eddy Merckx ;)
 

sachaknoop

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Well I would like to see that particular plane built, and flown, I don't know the purpose, but stretching the limits always works inspiring, and other disciplines could learn from that.
Sacha
 

SVSUSteve

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Well I would like to see that particular plane built, and flown, I don't know the purpose, but stretching the limits always works inspiring, and other disciplines could learn from that.
Sacha
How exactly is it "inspiring" or could other disciplines "learn from" it? The only lessons learned are that people are easily distracted by pointless goals and that you can waste a lot of money and efforts on something that in the long run accomplishes exactly nothing.

A human powered airplane is a lot like masturbation. Afterwards you have little to show for your efforts and outside of a few weirdos, no one else cares that you spent that time doing it.
 

SVSUSteve

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Well the Musculair II record is from 1985...and used an ancient foil..certainly it can be bettered by 15% at least.

Musculair 2 HPA
Assuming that :
1. You find a way to overcome the other sources of drag
2. Assume that the record wasn't set at that particular level based on the drag, etc and not the limits of human endurance and performance
3. Assume the drag of the airfoil is the limiting factor and not the mechanical and propulsive efficiency issues inherent in a propeller driven aircraft.

Those are the big three....I'm sure there are several others. The issue is not as simple as you wish to make it seem as is the common theme with most of your overly enthusiastic and optimistic link posting.
 

sachaknoop

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SVSUSteve

I am sorry but your negativity offended me. It is the same negativity that kills being creative. I completely distantiate from this kind of reasoning, everybody is allowed his or her opinion, but with respect to the rest of this community. It would be nice if you would choose your words a bit less offensive, I was just ventilating MY opinion.
Thank you.
Sacha
 
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