# How to 'buy and fly' cheap in 2022?

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#### JayKoit

##### Well-Known Member
Please don't take this wrong but if you can't afford a hangar or at least a shared space in a hangar then you may not be able to afford the airplane. The money for a hangar in most cases anyway is the least expensive part but that being said it may not be cheap in your area that's why I suggested a shared space.

You are right to look at Tri gears if you are not endorsed for a conventional gear. There are many options out there in the experimental category that meet your needs. My aircraft is extremely cheap to operate and own. It also has some very good performance for the horsepower. However it is not what I would call short field capable. I do not fly into anything under 2500 feet with any kind of obstacles on each end.
There are many experimental aircraft out there in the two seat category with varying performance that you can get for under 30 and many under 20k that is.
Set the parameters for the type of performance you would like, and I mean realistic performance because we are all dreamers LOL then go from there. There are many people on here that will share their experiences with different types of airplanes and the true cost of ownership with them. The hard part is deciding which one.

Here in southern California hangars are an enormous expense. Cheapest ones within 50 miles are about $400/month, the ones at the airport down the street from me start at about$900/month. I can get a tie down about 25 miles away for $54. There's no other expense in owning a small 2 seat LSA/EAB (insurance, annual reserve, overhaul/maintenance reserve, etc) that costs more that$400/month...except maybe buying more than 15 hours worth of fuel for said LSA in a month

What kind of plane do you own? You said it was extremely cheap to own and operate...

We're moving into Affordaplane territory

Which I would totally consider if I didn't have two boys that are dying to go flying with me I'm really liking the John Croke videos of his Affordaplane build, btw...

I have had offers to sell my plane and it is for sale but the OP said "cheap" so I don't think mine qualifies. OK so it's not for sale but if you really want to buy it just keep on peeling off those FRNs with Franklin's photo on them and I'll let you know when to stop ...

Dale I've been envious of your plane for some time...if it really is for sale let me know. Big fan of the Sonex/Corvair combo

#### Doran Jaffas

##### Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Here in southern California hangars are an enormous expense. Cheapest ones within 50 miles are about $400/month, the ones at the airport down the street from me start at about$900/month. I can get a tie down about 25 miles away for $54. There's no other expense in owning a small 2 seat LSA/EAB (insurance, annual reserve, overhaul/maintenance reserve, etc) that costs more that$400/month...except maybe buying more than 15 hours worth of fuel for said LSA in a month

What kind of plane do you own? You said it was extremely cheap to own and operate...

Which I would totally consider if I didn't have two boys that are dying to go flying with me I'm really liking the John Croke videos of his Affordaplane build, btw...

Dale I've been envious of your plane for some time...if it really is for sale let me know. Big fan of the Sonex/Corvair combo
My current steed is a Wittman Tailwind W10-8 with a Continental 0-200 A for power.

Feel free to contact me anytime on here or offline at the following [email protected]

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#### cluttonfred

##### Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
For a single-seater, there are plenty of examples of easy- and quick-folding-wing aircraft that could live on or in a trailer and be kept at home if you have a place to park. Two that I like are the Mignet HM.293RG and something called a FRED. ;-) (Those are links to short video clips.) In places where hangar space is so expensive, something like that and then an occasional rented Cessna/Piper to take the kids for a ride might be a good idea.

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#### JayKoit

##### Well-Known Member
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< \$20,000 and she's a 100 mph Taylorcraft so moves along nicely within a minimal fuel burn. I plan 5gph but I like my margins

Dang, beautiful plane! I’m a little envious..

My current steed is a Wittman Tailwind W10-8 with a Continental 0-200 A for power.

Feel free to contact me anytime on here or offline at the following [email protected]

Very nice, I forgot about the Tailwind, those are cool planes

For a single-seater, there are plenty of examples of easy- and quick-folding aircraft that could live on or in a trailer and be kept at home if you have garage or parking space. Two that I like are the Mignet HM.293RG and something called a FRED. ;-) (Those are links to short video clips.) In places where hangar space is so expensive, something like that and an occasional rented Cessna/Piper to take the kids for a ride might be a good idea.

like both of these, but I’d go broke renting with how much my boys want to fly

#### Victor Bravo

##### Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
If you can physically fit comfortably in the Taylorcraft or the Aeronca Chief, then those two are absolutely always the best bang for the buck in terms of anA-65/C-85 powered airplane. The added cost of the tailwheel training will be balanced by the bang/buck and the cool factor. I've owned 4 T-crafts, and I know them reasonably well. It will make a sharp pilot out of you and your kids. 100 mph on 4.5 gallons an hour in a full certified airplane and the gold standard of engine reliability.... is pretty hard to beat.

If you can find a cheap Davis DA-2 that is well built, then that is often the sleeper deal of all sleeper deals. A very under-rated airplane that you can take the family members in.

#### Victor Bravo

##### Well-Known Member
Supporting Member

#### cluttonfred

##### Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
like both of these, but I’d go broke renting with how much my boys want to fly

Maybe a share in a group ownership plan instead? If you don’t find one that you like, you could try to gather a group of pilot friends or even advertise to create one around a particular aircraft.

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#### BJC

##### Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Maybe a share in a group ownership plan instead? If you don’t find one that you like, you could try to gather a group of pilot friends or even advertise to create one around a particular aircraft.
A friend, who is in a flying club with a C172/glass panel, based at a local Class D airport, commented last night that the club has two openings, but no potential new members. They haven’t advertised. Their buy-in and rates sounded very reasonable.

The airplane may be more than some want, but the message is that there are some good opportunities, but they may be hard to find.

BJC

#### Turd Ferguson

##### Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
but I’d go broke renting with how much my boys want to fly

While not the most glamorous, renting is going to be the least expensive way to log an hour in the air. Money only flows when the hourmeter is running.

When you own the clock is running 24/7.

#### speedracer

##### Well-Known Member
Many airports require prof of insurance to obtain storage. You are correct there is no law in most cases. One can fly in and out of those airports without insurance.
My airport requires hanger liability insurance but does not require that we carry any insurance on our planes.

BJC

#### speedracer

##### Well-Known Member
If you can physically fit comfortably in the Taylorcraft or the Aeronca Chief, then those two are absolutely always the best bang for the buck in terms of anA-65/C-85 powered airplane. The added cost of the tailwheel training will be balanced by the bang/buck and the cool factor. I've owned 4 T-crafts, and I know them reasonably well. It will make a sharp pilot out of you and your kids. 100 mph on 4.5 gallons an hour in a full certified airplane and the gold standard of engine reliability.... is pretty hard to beat.

If you can find a cheap Davis DA-2 that is well built, then that is often the sleeper deal of all sleeper deals. A very under-rated airplane that you can take the family members in.
A friend recently sold his (average, 290 G powered Long EZ) for 26K. It's a good, utilitarian airplane, cruises at 160 MPH at 6 GPH. When I was building my second Long EZ I borrowed it 3 times to fly to Jackpot, NV, 860 miles round trip.

#### jedi

##### Well-Known Member
I totally would consider part 103 - but my two sons would disown me if I bought a single seater that I can't take them up in

Get the 103 and let/teach the kids to fly it. No age limit and they will love it. How old are they?

Find a club or do a little rental to get them started and over the hump in the learning cycle. Look at the Aerolight 103. In So Cal you will want something that is not kept at the airport unless it is some sort of shared expenses.

#### cluttonfred

##### Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
And about the safest Part 103 ultralights I can imagine from your neck of the woods….

And since Mike Sandlin is an old hang glider guy, you can actually break the whole thing down to carry on a roof rack and in the back of a pickup. A dedicated trailer would be even better as you could probably leave major assemblies complete to speed up the process.

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#### JayKoit

##### Well-Known Member

Thanks for the recommendations and links, I talked to the 601 owner, but I was third in line and the logistics to get it across the country because it's not ferry-able was too much hassle...but I like the Skycoupe and Spacewalker, cool planes!

Maybe a share in a group ownership plan instead? If you don’t find one that you like, you could try to gather a group of pilot friends or even advertise to create one around a particular aircraft.
A friend, who is in a flying club with a C172/glass panel, based at a local Class D airport, commented last night that the club has two openings, but no potential new members. They haven’t advertised. Their buy-in and rates sounded very reasonable.

The airplane may be more than some want, but the message is that there are some good opportunities, but they may be hard to find.

BJC

True, I could go the shared route, but I'd have to wait until late in the year because we're moving to AZ...

While not the most glamorous, renting is going to be the least expensive way to log an hour in the air. Money only flows when the hourmeter is running.

When you own the clock is running 24/7.

Agreed, but we were talking about owning a single seat for me, and renting a two seater on top of that

#### allonsye

##### Well-Known Member
I sent a wanted to buy postcard to all 30 registered owners of the model. Got three replies.
This definitely works. Been there done exactly that.

#### JayKoit

##### Well-Known Member
A friend recently sold his (average, 290 G powered Long EZ) for 26K. It's a good, utilitarian airplane, cruises at 160 MPH at 6 GPH. When I was building my second Long EZ I borrowed it 3 times to fly to Jackpot, NV, 860 miles round trip.

I would LOVE to get a nice VariEze or Long EZ...I forgot to include that in my original list. Thanks.

Get the 103 and let/teach the kids to fly it. No age limit and they will love it. How old are they?

Find a club or do a little rental to get them started and over the hump in the learning cycle. Look at the Aerolight 103. In So Cal you will want something that is not kept at the airport unless it is some sort of shared expenses.

That's true, I suppose we could go the 103 route, especially if it's trailerable. My boys are 11 and 12, and my 11 year old has already started saving for his own ultralight, and I want to get them into gliders in the next year or so.

And about the safest Part 103 ultralights I can imagine from your neck of the woods….
View attachment 120877

View attachment 120875

And since Mike Sandlin is an old hang glider guy, you can actually break the whole thing down to carry on a roof rack and in the back of a pickup. A dedicated trailer would be even better as you could probably leave major assemblies complete to speed up the process.

Cool ultralight, I'll check it out

#### cluttonfred

##### Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
The Stits designs are old-school and not spectacular performers but solid and proven and undervalued. I’d love a two-seat Flut-R-Bug.

#### poormansairforce

##### Well-Known Member
The Limbach 1000 hour TBO seems low. But my Limbach only has about 1000 hrs in the 40 years since new (1981).
It gets to 3000 feet in minutes and the rest of the hour flight is engine off! Not much engine time.
Frequent cylinder head work is required about every five years, actually from a combination of lack of use and overheat. VW heads are cheap.
...if you were closer...

#### Daleandee

##### Well-Known Member
Dale I've been envious of your plane for some time...if it really is for sale let me know. Big fan of the Sonex/Corvair combo

She's kinda like the wife ... "It's cheaper to keep her."

Appreciate the thought though ...