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How does this Hybrid work ?

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Bille Floyd

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He was saying , you could run 40Kw on Gas, or run 40Kw with electric , or
run both and double the power, or just recharge the batterys ; and i have no
clue how it works as stated . If ya add the gas with the electric ; wouldn't
ya need to double the reduction ?

Cool engine and reduction combo , (without the hybrid system) ; just too much
power, for my application.


Bile
 

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Hot Wings

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Several modes:
Run the motor, from batteries, and the ICE at the same time. Lots of power for take off and climb.
Run the Ice only for cruise with the option to recharge the batteries slowly for another climb, or just to have battery reserve if the ICE should fail.
Run off whatever charge is in the batteries if the ICE fails or you just need a little power for soaring to spin the prop for zero drag.

To take advantage of all of this you also should have a variable pitch prop. For someone that likes to cruise at high speeds there won't be much advantage form the complexity other than having the 'save' of the motor and batteries if the ICE fails.
 

henryk

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Run the motor, from batteries, and the ICE at the same time. Lots of power for take off and climb.
=noisy mode...
better=

=electromotor for take off and climbe (little batterys )=low noise,
then ICE for long cruise (high altitude,not big noise),
E-landing (quit !).

this variant can be not heavier as classic ICE are ...?
 

TFF

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All helicopters have overrunning clutches. If you throttle back or an engine seizes, you don’t want it to slow or stop the blades. Automatic transmissions have them too. Since they do transmit the torque, they have to be strong enough or they will shell out and do the reverse of their job, lock it all up.
 

pictsidhe

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All helicopters have overrunning clutches. If you throttle back or an engine seizes, you don’t want it to slow or stop the blades. Automatic transmissions have them too. Since they do transmit the torque, they have to be strong enough or they will shell out and do the reverse of their job, lock it all up.
This is a country mile from a helicopter transmission. The problem with this design is that the clutch will be locking and unlocking every firing pulse. It will not like that, at all. There is no compliant element between the engine and prop, as helicopters have.
I'm guessing that this thing has had very little, or no testing, yet.
 

Hephaestus

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I kinda want more info on how that brushless is installed and operated.

The fun could be with a bldc you could use a sensored motor and have the controller smooth some of the engine pulses, reducing some of the wear on the overrun in normal operation.

The combo does allow some interesting options if you've got a good controller design to match. I want some tech data :)
 

pictsidhe

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I kinda want more info on how that brushless is installed and operated.

The fun could be with a bldc you could use a sensored motor and have the controller smooth some of the engine pulses, reducing some of the wear on the overrun in normal operation.

The combo does allow some interesting options if you've got a good controller design to match. I want some tech data :)
You'd need a far more powerful motor to keep a positive torque on the clutch. A glitch in the motor circuit may result in a trashed clutch and no engine power either.
I think this is a dead end solution. A regular clutch is needed.
 

TFF

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The overrunning clutch on a helicopter goes in between the engine and the transmission. That this is designed to that degree is irrelevant. The real question is did they think of it. The ones in auto transmissions are readily available and will easily handle that power. Adapt one from a Turbo 350, lubricating it would be a bigger issue.
 

pictsidhe

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The overrunning clutch on a helicopter goes in between the engine and the transmission. That this is designed to that degree is irrelevant. The real question is did they think of it. The ones in auto transmissions are readily available and will easily handle that power. Adapt one from a Turbo 350, lubricating it would be a bigger issue.
I can't see any compliance past the belt, which is not enough. Auto transmissions have either a torque converter or springs in the power train. This has neither. It will continously lock and unlock, just like they don't in helicopters or cars...
 

wsimpso1

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How long does the over running clutch last?
That depends upon how suitable it is for the application. In automatic transmissions and torque converters, they can run virtually forever. Alternatively, if you take a grease lubricated roller OWC developed for a bicycle and over run it at several thousand rpm, it could fail quickly. I would hope that this one is suitable, but we shall see.

Billski
 

wsimpso1

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The fun could be with a bldc you could use a sensored motor and have the controller smooth some of the engine pulses, reducing some of the wear on the overrun in normal operation.
This is the "electric damper" concept, and it has been brought up within the transmission community in at least two automakers and a couple of power train suppliers. The difficulty is that the peak electrical power required in four cylinder car engines dwarfed the engine power. Just to make it easy to understand, peak firing torque is about eight times the average torque of the engine. In order for this concept to work, your e-machine has to suck up the peak firing torque, keeping the engine from speeding up in this part of the cycle, and then put that energy back in over the rest of the cycle, keeping the engine from slowing down. The power electronics and the generator to do this is huge and heavy. Torsional pendulums plus effective spring dampers are way lighter and cheaper, not to mention much more reliable.

Billski
 

wsimpso1

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This is a country mile from a helicopter transmission. The problem with this design is that the clutch will be locking and unlocking every firing pulse. It will not like that, at all. There is no compliant element between the engine and prop, as helicopters have.
I'm guessing that this thing has had very little, or no testing, yet.
Again that depends upon the dutycycle and how it is designed. If the OWC only opens down near idle, torque is low and engagement speeds are low too, and it ought tolive kind of easy. On the other hand if the OWC is being used to suppress resonance up at flight power, the task of making it live gets tougher.

Billski
 

BBerson

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In order for this concept to work, your e-machine has to suck up the peak firing torque, keeping the engine from speeding up in this part of the cycle, and then put that energy back in over the rest of the cycle, keeping the engine from slowing down. The power electronics and the generator to do this is huge and heavy
Just use battery power timed only at off peak cycles. No generation. The battery would only be used occasionally at full power like takeoff.
 

pictsidhe

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Just use battery power timed only at off peak cycles. No generation. The battery would only be used occasionally at full power like takeoff.
It's not the battery that's the issue. Pulse energy storage can be done with capacitors in the controller. The problem is the huge (heavy) motorgenerator needed.
 

BBerson

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I wasn't suggesting pulse energy storage at all. I said no generation.
The electric RC I Fly do not have pulse energy storage nor do they need it. Same for light aircraft.
But the light aircraft could have timed pulse.
I don't know if the hybrid cars have that. I haven't looked at any since the Honda Insight first hybrid in 2000.
 

pictsidhe

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I wasn't suggesting pulse energy storage at all. I said no generation.
The electric RC I Fly do not have pulse energy storage nor do they need it. Same for light aircraft.
But the light aircraft could have timed pulse.
I don't know if the hybrid cars have that. I haven't looked at any since the Honda Insight first hybrid in 2000.
It would need to put out many times the engine power to work. It is not a small amount of power that is needed
 
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