Hipec with a roller

Homebuilt Aircraft & Kit Plane Forum

Help Support Homebuilt Aircraft & Kit Plane Forum:

KWK

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Joined
Jan 1, 2011
Messages
131
Location
Peoria, Illinois
I found an interview with the current owner of Hipec, and he says it rolls on pretty well. Anyone seen the results of this?
 

Daleandee

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2015
Messages
1,527
Location
SC
I have no knowledge of this product and there doesn't seem to be much online.

We have discussed various applications and paints before. You didn't say what surface it would be going on. Here is what I did using a three part Acrylic Urethane Enamel paint on 6061 aluminum. Others have used Latex paint on various surfaces with great results.


Dunno if this helps ...
 

KWK

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Joined
Jan 1, 2011
Messages
131
Location
Peoria, Illinois
Sorry; I should have been more specific. My plane is a RANS, so the paint will be going on cloth and metal. I'll study your linked page.

My first inclination was Oratex, but if you don't like how you glued down a section, you grab a blow torch and burn it off, which seems a bit intimidating for a first covering project. I haven't ruled it out.

A couple guys in the local EAA use water based house paint, and I planned to try that by following Malcolm Morrison's technique on an old rudder frame. I was, though, reviewing my notes file on covering systems the other day and decided to look back at the older Hipec system. I see it has a new owner, and he's taken the time to get an STC. They also now offer an alternate formulation to lower VOC. The adhesive and the initial coat are one part, and the finish coat is two part, apparently urethanes.
 

BJC

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Joined
Oct 7, 2013
Messages
13,601
Location
97FL, Florida, USA
Well I glanced at the thread title, and thought that it was about flying rollers (rolling turns, probably the most unnatural flying maneuver that there is) in a Sorrell Hyperbipe.

Darn.


BJC
 

KWK

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Joined
Jan 1, 2011
Messages
131
Location
Peoria, Illinois
Here is what I did using a three part Acrylic Urethane Enamel paint on 6061 aluminum.
I'd like to read more but the sites linked are gone. Unfortunately, expercraft.com saved its information in a way the Internet Archive couldn't readily track.
 
Last edited:

Pops

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Log Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Messages
9,645
Location
USA.
Well I glanced at the thread title, and thought that it was about flying rollers (rolling turns, probably the most unnatural flying maneuver that there is) in a Sorrell Hyperbipe.

Darn.


BJC
Timing on the down elevator has to be right on. Not easy.
 

Daleandee

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2015
Messages
1,527
Location
SC
I'd like to read more but the links are broken. I'll see if I can find the data stored on the Internet Archive.
It's been that way for sometime. This post has all the information posted on my old Expercraft site; Roller Painting for Metal Aircraft

The Kitplanes article is here: "Myunn" Corvair-powered Sonex - KITPLANES

Paint supplier in Florida: Boat Paint Supply Kit in Stuart, FL | Boat Finishing Kit
(I see they have posted my review - ;))

Dunno if this helps ...

Dale
 

sharpvector

Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2014
Messages
18
Location
Monona
Sorry; I should have been more specific. My plane is a RANS, so the paint will be going on cloth and metal. I'll study your linked page.

My first inclination was Oratex, but if you don't like how you glued down a section, you grab a blow torch and burn it off, which seems a bit intimidating for a first covering project. I haven't ruled it out.

A couple guys in the local EAA use water based house paint, and I planned to try that by following Malcolm Morrison's technique on an old rudder frame. I was, though, reviewing my notes file on covering systems the other day and decided to look back at the older Hipec system. I see it has a new owner, and he's taken the time to get an STC. They also now offer an alternate formulation to lower VOC. The adhesive and the initial coat are one part, and the finish coat is two part, apparently urethanes.
Talk with Randy at Rans about the Hipec system. I was interested in using it to cover my plane after I visited their Hipec booth at Oshkosh last year. After talking with Randy though I changed my mind. The biggest caveat is relying solely on an adhesive to keep your fabric attached to your wing and empennage.

Rans uses Stewart's system for the coverings and then PPG paints on top, and that's the way I'm going to go. Being experimental is all well and good, but for some things though, I prefer tried and true.
 

TFF

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2010
Messages
15,453
Location
Memphis, TN
No reason you can’t lace the wings. I believe they have provisions. A friend was very impressed on the shine from that paint. I don’t know if you can roll it though. I bet it would be very heavy.
 

KWK

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Joined
Jan 1, 2011
Messages
131
Location
Peoria, Illinois
I located on the web a scan of an early '90s Hipec manual. I don't think their formulation has changed over the years (other than the new, optional low VOC version), so it should still apply. While they tout that no rib stitching is required, they do cover how to use it. I can see a tail, with just a bent tube for a rib, would still need to be stitched, for there simply isn't enough area for the glue.

I think their glue may actually be a concern, but because it may be too tenacious. If there is no solvent for it (I've haven't talked with them), then, as with Oratex, you may have to burn it off. Not good for a wood wing, such as the Cygnet.
 

KWK

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Joined
Jan 1, 2011
Messages
131
Location
Peoria, Illinois
I don’t know if you can roll it though. I bet it would be very heavy.
Malcolm Morrison, finds that rollering thinned house paint is no heavier than Polyfiber, and he uses about 8 coats.

Hipec appears to claim one can get by with only two rolled coats, but I have not verified that with them.
 

TFF

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2010
Messages
15,453
Location
Memphis, TN
That’s what I mean. Polyfiber is water thin and evaporates. The hardened paint is all hardener cured. You roll it on thick once and you could double the paint weight.
 

KWK

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Joined
Jan 1, 2011
Messages
131
Location
Peoria, Illinois
Thanks for that link, Daleandee. My plane is fabric covered, but I'll keep the information to pass along to friends with aluminum airplanes.

Over the years, TFF, Hipec has claimed their polyurethane process weighs much less than Polyfiber, but of course that assumes it's sprayed on. I'll give them a phone call. Not only do I want to ask about rollering, but that interview with the new owner from last December says they were planning on offering a test kit, suitable for covering a rudder. I'll post back here.
 

TFF

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2010
Messages
15,453
Location
Memphis, TN
Friends have gotten me expired paint repair kits from the big carriers they work for. Tray, rollers, primer, and paint. They were made for 3x3 or less a fix on DC10. Convenient way to do things on a flight line.

That company makes floor paint; the paint will level out smooth and look good. Until PPG stopped making it, the Kimballs recommend painting their Pitts M-12 kits with industrial floor paint. A local built his and painted it with the floor paint, finished about 15 years ago. I think it won best paint at Sun N Fun that year. It was one of the heaviest M12s built at the time. 150 lbs over normal mostly contributed to the paint. Went a little overboard. It is pretty and has plenty of horsepower, so no real issue, but he is not winning bragging rights on light build.
 

sharpvector

Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2014
Messages
18
Location
Monona
No reason you can’t lace the wings. I believe they have provisions. A friend was very impressed on the shine from that paint. I don’t know if you can roll it though. I bet it would be very heavy.
Yes, you can still lace. However, at the time of the show, one of the big features of the system they were selling at their booth last year was that you don't have to do any rib stitching, etc. In other words, they were claiming their adhesive is strong enough to hold so you can skip the lacing. So one of the things that got my interest was the thought of skipping all the rib stitching. The other thing I really liked was how nice their demo wing looked without said tape and lacing.

So what I'd going to do instead is go with the double cover method for that really nice smooth look without any tape showing (and maybe coming loose over time). Kinda like what Mike Patey's done with Scrappy.


 

TFF

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2010
Messages
15,453
Location
Memphis, TN
Double cover is cool looking. Tough to do nice. It’s the only recommended way to cover a Pitts M12. There is some tricks to it.
 

TFF

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2010
Messages
15,453
Location
Memphis, TN
You do still lace with double cover on the Pitts M12 and any other I have seen used. Skybolt and Knight Twister are the only others I have seen.
 

KWK

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Joined
Jan 1, 2011
Messages
131
Location
Peoria, Illinois
I can see a tail, with just a bent tube for a rib, would still need to be stitched, for there simply isn't enough area for the glue.
I'll have to retract that. I stopped by the Hipec site today and found they claim that even over just a skinny tube you don't need to rib stitch, that the fillet of glue which forms at the top of the tube is enough.

"The fabric breaks away from the rib at the same load value no matter what the rib width is."

That implies it fails by peeling away, so the width of the glue joint wouldn't change the outcome. I wonder how that's worked out in practice...
 

KWK

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Joined
Jan 1, 2011
Messages
131
Location
Peoria, Illinois
I looked more thoroughly at the scan of the 1991 Hipec manual which I came across on the web. It states in the Summary of Instructions all coats can be applied with a foam roller. In the more detailed sections, though, it says to spray the top coat (color) layer.

A caution to use suitable breathing equipment is only in regards to spraying, perhaps since rolling would only put the evaporating carrier in the air, not particulates with isocyanate. For the roller, it implies you need only mechanical ventilation of your paint booth.

The system is light in weight and has fewer steps than any but Oratex. It all sounds too good. I wonder what's the catch.
 

Daleandee

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2015
Messages
1,527
Location
SC
It all sounds too good. I wonder what's the catch.
I'm of the same line of thinking. I see a lot of information/advice given on the internet and I'm always curious as to the part you don't hear about. The term, "win-win" is sometimes used but I've always held to the simple statement; "there ain't no such thing as a free lunch ... someone has to pay." With items that have followed a great design and testing by a reputable person(s) or company, you will get a quality product with few negatives. I feel that Mr. Pete Plumb and his O-100 engine is a good example of such.
 
Top