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Captain Bravo

Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2019
Messages
6
Location
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Hello everyone,

My name is Pascal. I have been designing, building and flying kites, gliders, and RC models since childhood. I obtained my private pilot license in 2005 and have accumulated over 250 hours as Pilot in Command. I currently own a DA20-C1.

I have the itch to build my forever plane. However, I am not too interested in simply assembling a kit from parts. The design phase also intrerests me. I have been reading a lot about home building, fabrication processes, and in particular how to build using composite materials.

My ideal airplane would be good for the frequent 600 nm trip without having to refuel, plus mild aerobatics. I mostly fly alone or with one passenger. So a twin seater it will be. I want an airplane that can take high Gs and that can cruise at 150 knots using an IO-360 engine. I can't stand the ugliness of the rectangular wings on Van's airplanes, so a more efficient composite wing on an otherwise stock RV-7A or RV-8 might be something that I would like to build.

I also downloaded the plans to the F.8L Falco airplane. The Furio might have been interesting, except that the price of the kit is way too high, so I believe thatès why only a few of them have been built:

http://www.falcomposite.com/furio-rg.php


I am looking forward to learnign a lot from these forums.

Happy new year 2019!

Pascal
 

don january

Well-Known Member
Log Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2015
Messages
2,805
Location
Midwest
Hi and welcome to the forum. I've always liked the Barracuda wood construction and good performance. A member on this Forum has or had a great start to one for sale. Welcome aboard. DonSilver_Barracuda.JPG
 

bmcj

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Messages
13,392
Location
Fresno, California
I like the Barracuda too, but with its high wingliading, it may be more appropriate to a high time pilot with experience in heavier aircraft. You mentioned the RV’s, but don’t like the square rings... perhaps you should look at the Mustang 2.
 

Captain Bravo

Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2019
Messages
6
Location
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
I like the Barracuda too, but with its high wingliading, it may be more appropriate to a high time pilot with experience in heavier aircraft. You mentioned the RV’s, but don’t like the square rings... perhaps you should look at the Mustang 2.
The Mustang 2 is an interesting airplane. However, I'd like to keep the ability to operate from short unimproved grass strips and keep stall speed to trainer airplane levels (my DA20-C1 stalls at 34 knots, I am spoiled).

The airplane might have to live outside in our cold winters here, so I'm not sure a wooden airplane would like that too much. I'm not sure I can justify the 100k$ purchase price or 500$ per month rental price for hangars around here. I would rather put the money in the airplane.

Also the reason why I need a faster airplane (my DA20-C1 easily cruises at 120 - 130 knots indicated) is that my girlfriend has a three hour bladder. It doesn't matter if the airplane can stay up in the air for seven hours in a row, we have to be on the ground for her comfort after maximum three hours in the air :)
 

mcrae0104

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Log Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2009
Messages
3,321
Location
BJC
I can't stand the ugliness of the rectangular wings on Van's airplanes, so a more efficient composite wing on an otherwise stock RV-7A or RV-8 might be something that I would like to build.
Mr. BoKu, please pick up the white courtesy phone; paging Mr. BoKu...
 

lr27

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2007
Messages
3,822
Seems like if you're going to build an RV fuselage, you might as well build a metal wing to go with it. I'm sure that, with a bit of extra work, you could make a metal, tapered wing that was a little more efficient, and more attractive too. I'm guessing it would be less work and expense than building the wing out of a whole different set of materials. I'd be surprised if a metal design meeting your requirements doesn't exist already. I suppose you think Dyke Deltas are ugly, but don't they have fiberglass skins?

BTW, plywood covered with very light fiberglass and epoxy can be quite durable outside. At least if you fix any dings promptly. Whether this translates to a whole airplane being durable is something I don't know.
 

Victor Bravo

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2014
Messages
7,453
Location
KWHP, Los Angeles CA, USA
Brokaw Bullet
Questair Venture
Smith (Smythe?) Sidewinder

Your choices are very limited if you need an aircraft with high performance, that can live outside, that is not expensive, that you can build easily.
 

Rockiedog2

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2012
Messages
2,336
an RV with a tapered wing? it sounds like mostly for looks/marginal efficiency increases?

After you really think about it for a while and all things considered an RV with the plans wing will make way more sense. So much work and uncertainty for not much gain.

I flew an MM2 for a while. Nowhere near the airplane the RVs are. Not as fast. Not as comfortable. Not as easy on the ground. Roll it into a bank and pull a little and it starts shaking; I always thought the skinny little leading edge. I wouldn't trade those 2 wings. Or an RV for a MM2.

For your mission a bone stock RV will be hard to beat. But yeah, I agree...very hohum. They pretty much all the same; it's all about the paint and glass. When I would go to AV in mine I would park it in the RV area and take off for the tube and rag stuff and never go back til time to leave. Mine turned out to mostly be a tool. Never did bond with that thing.
 

TFF

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Joined
Apr 28, 2010
Messages
13,049
Location
Memphis, TN
If you need the numbers, it will be hard to beat an RV because they deliver as advertised. Falco is my favorite but I think it is scratch only unless someone ended up getting the tooling. I think your best bet is finish someone's Glasair or Lancair if looks is tops on the list.
 

cluttonfred

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HBA Supporter
Joined
Feb 13, 2010
Messages
7,407
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World traveler
Hi and welcome! I can't think of any fast, aerobatic two-seater common in North America with a stall speed that low. You might look at some of the high-performance microlights available in Europe, but I think you'll need to accept a higher stall speed or lower top speed.
 

Mad MAC

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Joined
Dec 9, 2004
Messages
626
Location
Hamilton New Zealand
one could do an RV with a constant chord inner with tapered outer (similar to a T18) and that would let one use most of the RV's wing kit. With a little care one should be able to increase the span a bit without having to reinforce the inner half of the spar.
 

Captain Bravo

Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2019
Messages
6
Location
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
With a name like Pascal hailing from Montreal, I suspect you're not afraid of plans in French.
That's the paradox of being a french speaker in North America. I've built way too many things with 8x4s and RC aircraft from R/C Modelers magazine. I think in feet and inches when I build. Also, metric aviation nuts and bolts are harder to come by than imperial ones around here.

But these planes look nice, I will research them. Thanks for the links!
 

Captain Bravo

Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2019
Messages
6
Location
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
For RVs, there is the EVO wing for the F1 Rocket. But that wing is very heavy and makes only sense for a larger engine. As for a longer wing that would be more efficient in cruise, well that's the RV-9.

There is someone working on a composite tapered wing that would be compatible with RV7/8/9, and I have contacted the person working on it, we'll see.

Thanks everybody for your input, i very much appreciate it.
 

Captain Bravo

Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2019
Messages
6
Location
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
For RVs, there is the EVO wing for the F1 Rocket. But that wing is very heavy and makes only sense for a larger engine. As for a longer wing that would be more efficient in cruise, well that's the RV-9.

There is someone working on a composite tapered wing that would be compatible with RV7/8/9, and I have contacted the person working on it, we'll see.

Thanks everybody for your input, i very much appreciate it.
 

cluttonfred

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HBA Supporter
Joined
Feb 13, 2010
Messages
7,407
Location
World traveler
But these planes look nice, I will research them. Thanks for the links!
Sure, see also http://www.slittneraircraftplans.com/aircraft.html. The Littner family in Quebec have long been the North American representatives for Piel plans. They also sell plans for the designs by Italian Giuseppe Vidor. His Champion V will meet your requirements and the Jewel X will exceed them with just a 100 hp Rotax, though with the complication of retractable gear for best performance.

Asso Jewel X
Asso_Aerei_X_Jewel_I-B427.jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vidor_Asso_X_Jewel

Asso Champion V
800px-Asso_Aeri_Asso_V_Champion_V,_Private_JP7467191.jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vidor_Champion_V
 
Last edited:

bmcj

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Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Messages
13,392
Location
Fresno, California
LR27 already mentioned the Dyke Delta. Have you looked at that one. I’m not sure if that are aerobatic capable, but you can always rent when you want to do acro.
 

lr27

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2007
Messages
3,822
LR27 already mentioned the Dyke Delta. Have you looked at that one. I’m not sure if that are aerobatic capable, but you can always rent when you want to do acro.
It also has the neat feature of folding narrow enough to fit in a garage. I seem to recall it even folds up narrow enough to keep in one of those steel containers that they use for shipping.
 
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