Has anyone built a Gyrobee lately?

Homebuilt Aircraft & Kit Plane Forum

Help Support Homebuilt Aircraft & Kit Plane Forum:

MACOWA

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Joined
Apr 19, 2021
Messages
49
It's windy where I live, a part 103 machine would be great, I have a zero hours 503. It spins a 5 bladepowerfin adjustable prop I have a set of Black max wheels & brakes and would like to use a pair of Sky wheels blades. all of these are heavy things. perhaps this could be mitigated by the use of carbon composite blended spars. It is my understanding that jump capability using blade pitch turns a gyrocopter into a helicopter according to the rules (what a can of worms!) would this apply to a machine qualified under 103 rules?
 
Last edited:

Doran Jaffas

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2019
Messages
473
This is the closest thing to a gyro thread that my question fits so forgive my slightly off topic of another make.

I am looking for airspeed specs on the RAF Sparrow Hawk. Anyone?

Thanks.
Doran
 

MACOWA

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Joined
Apr 19, 2021
Messages
49
This is the closest thing to a gyro thread that my question fits so forgive my slightly off topic of another make.

I am looking for airspeed specs on the RAF Sparrow Hawk. Anyone?

Thanks.
Doran
It is my understanding that the cruise speed is 75/mph. never exceed is 99-mph and rate of clime is 650 /FPM. hope this helps.
 

Aesquire

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2014
Messages
2,852
Location
Rochester, NY, USA
would this apply to a machine qualified under 103 rules?
Nope. But you'll find it very difficult to add the more comp!ex rotor hub and drive bits & still keep under the 255 pound max empty weight.

Helicopter & gyrocopters that fit the weight, seat ( 1 ) and fuel capacity limits of pt. 103 aren't expected to meet stall & max speed rules. Gliders don't need to meet max speed rules, but are limited to 155? Pounds.

If it was easy, everyone would do it. ;)
 

MACOWA

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Joined
Apr 19, 2021
Messages
49
Hello, Aesquire. If I'm building for a 155# MEW. I'm already one pound over weight. Your point is however very well taken. The standard Bee weight is 247, which gives one about 6Lbs to play with. I have been flying 103 for the past two and a half decades, (Disabled veteran before sport pilot rules took effect) ; Original US. factory built J-3 kitten. (what a privilege) and a Quicksilver M/X (flying lawn chair). Both ended up fat. It is my strong suspicion that a Bee flown beyond it's design max speed would become pitch divergent and very unstable and this would occur before any "rules" are broken. Stall speed is of course mute. If it was easy wouldn't be interested. Thank you for your interest. Rotor head ? please report back !
 

jazzenjohn

Active Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2014
Messages
26
Location
Milan, Mi. U.S.A.
I wouldn't expect the bee to become pitch divergent unless you used a very small tail or had the angle of incidence set wrong. Gyro tails generally should be 0 to -3 degrees nose down.
There are plenty of ways to make a Bee lighter. Blade choice is important. The 503 is a great choice, but the Bee is spec'd for a 447 so there goes your 6 pounds already, and a couple more. What prop diameter is the Powerfin with 5 blades? Skywheels are very very heavy, and difficult to get. If you are determined to stay under 254 then you might be better off looking for a set of used Dragon Wings 22-24 foot diameter. Bensen or Brock blades are light as well and hand startable but they are comparatively low performance. There are also new blades available from Gyrotecnic called Razor Blades that are very nice and much lighter than SkyWheels. Trying to overcome the additional 30+ pounds of the SkyWheels will be onerous. SkyWheels are very nice rotorblades, but difficult to make U/L weight with.
 
Last edited:

cluttonfred

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Joined
Feb 13, 2010
Messages
8,438
Location
World traveler
MACOWA, if you're serious about pursuing a gyro project, I'd suggest doing some extensive reading over at the Popular Rotorcraft Association forum and making connections with Gyrobee builders over there. I believe that design can make a legal Part 103 machine if you are very attentive to weight, that may well mean looking for a lighter engine and wheels than the ones you mentioned.

 

Aesquire

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2014
Messages
2,852
Location
Rochester, NY, USA
It is my understanding that jump capability using blade pitch turns a gyrocopter into a helicopter according to the rules (what a can of worms!) would this apply to a machine qualified under 103 rules?
To be more clear, hopefully, under pt 103 there's no difference between a helicopter or gyro. The 155 pound limit is just for unpowered gliders, so ignore.

To get jump capability you need a more complex hub ( at least two pitch angles ) that allows you to spin up the blades to over 100+% flight RPM at flat pitch/zero lift. ( how much more, I don't know ) And a pre-rotator system that can spin them that fast. Once at high RPM, you disengage the power to the blades, Then pull/switch/throw? the hub into flight pitch, & hang on. At full throttle. Theory says it you do it all right the machine leaps into the air and you are quickly in autorotation, either moving forward ( Why you're at full throttle ) and/or descending.

If you don't disengage power before changing pitch, you will rise into the air briefly, spinning wildly from the torque, like a helicopter with the tail rotor left off. See all the action movie crashes. ;)

For details on how & when you move the stick and pedals to fly & not do it wrong, get instruction from a qualified instructor. I'm not one. :)

There's a reason the sky isn't crowded with jump copters. It's most of the complexity of a full helicopter, but without the ability to hover. Darn nifty flying machines though.
 

MACOWA

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Joined
Apr 19, 2021
Messages
49
Hello, Aesquire Thank you. I had no idea that the glider guys were allowed an extra pound. I imagine it's so they can carry thier car keys for the recovery operation. Your thinking and my own, On "how it works" are identical in all mentioned considerations. an affirmation at this time is most welcome. Has anyone ever left the ground with the pre rotator engaged and survived it ? Extensive rotor wing training is part of the budget for this project (old tail drager guy) I live at Sun point on the Olympic peninsula in Washington state. A satelite image of the area explains a lot, if I am to operate from my own property I better be able to "jump"
 

MACOWA

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Joined
Apr 19, 2021
Messages
49
I wouldn't expect the bee to become pitch divergent unless you used a very small tail or had the angle of incidence set wrong. Gyro tails generally should be 0 to -3 degrees nose down.
There are plenty of ways to make a Bee lighter. Blade choice is important. The 503 is a great choice, but the Bee is spec'd for a 447 so there goes your 6 pounds already, and a couple more. What prop diameter is the Powerfin with 5 blades? Skywheels are very very heavy, and difficult to get. If you are determined to stay under 254 then you might be better off looking for a set of used Dragon Wings 22-24 foot diameter. Bensen or Brock blades are light as well and hand startable but they are comparatively low performance. There are also new blades available from Gyrotecnic called Razor Blades that are very nice and much lighter than SkyWheels. Trying to overcome the additional 30+ pounds of the SkyWheels will be onerous. SkyWheels are very nice rotorblades, but difficult to make U/L weight with.
Hello, jazzenjohn. Thank you. Knowing what I don't know is a lot more valuable than knowing what I do. The 503 is my choice because it is a zero hour engine and I own it. prop diameter is 54"for the 5 blade. A 30+ pound difference in blade weight ? Holy sox ! This my first attempt at a rotor wing aircraft and I must confess to being "blade ignorant" I intend to work on the situation.
 

jazzenjohn

Active Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2014
Messages
26
Location
Milan, Mi. U.S.A.
The prop is too small. You'd want at minimum 60" and 65"+ would be better. 2-3 blades are enough at the diameters I suggest. I would strongly encourage you to make a standard gyro first before attempting a vastly more difficult jump take off gyro. Making a jump T/O head and replacing the one you start with isn't an unreasonable way to go. Making a jump T/O ultralight gyro would be a first in the world.
As far as weight is concerned, you can get 24 pounds weight credit for incorporating a parachute in the airframe.
 

MACOWA

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Joined
Apr 19, 2021
Messages
49
Hello, jazzenjohn Thanks. I am aware of those exemptions having built and flown two 103's in the past. A Quicksilver MX pulling fiberglass floats turned out to be kind of a bad idea, but I still have my Sidewinder chute. Your attention to my Gyrobee project has been invaluable, and has prompted me to rearrange the priorities. My next step forward will be flight training and a LOT of study. After all its MY butt in that seat. Sincerely Patrick.
 
Top