Discussion in 'Supplier / Manufacturer Announcements' started by Hart Aero, Nov 30, 2009.
You lose credibility when you make stuff up.
I also reserve the right to be humorous and use what sould be a fairly obvious exaggeration for the purpose of said humor.
When I was there as a vendor, the hot dogs and fast food was just horribly overpriced for what I felt was not good quality food. If you're in Wisconsin, it takes a fairly concerted effort to find a poor quality Bratwurst.
My experiences with EAA's booth pricing, and vendor policies, and problems with vendor Wi-Fi service were exactly what I wrote.
On one hand it is easy to say that hot dogs and sodas are always overpriced at large outdoor events, and that is certainly correct. But EAA Airventure is supposed to be all of us, as EAA members and aviators, on the same side and supporting each other. It's not supposed to be "how much can you squeeze out of these people... us versus them". It is always positioned as a giant family gathering, a homecoming, a reunion of all our brothers and sisters in aviation. Not a timeshare sales presentation or a baseball stadium game.
Would you gouge your family members when they all gather for a holiday or a wedding? When Uncle Bubba comes to stay with you would you overcharge him for food because he's more or less trapped in your house?
For the record, I WANT EAA to be profitable, I want them to make money at Airventure, and I want them to have their coffers full to provide the member services and all they do for aviation. But fair is fair, I don't want to feel like I'm under siege by organized pickpockets and targeted as a cash cow at every turn.
TFF...I agree, the new, improved 'version' of something is a new design. Unless you signed a no-competition clause, creativity wins.. Victor Bravo....At some time in the past, the EAA directors turned OUR 'ORGANIZATION' into THEIR 'BUSINESS'. I still call Oshkosh a 'FLY-IN' Silly me. But every year when I go, I still search out and find my little corner of aviation... Off topic....So, back to the Zipster......It is probably a lost design....Will I design a replacement ?....I doubt it. Would I revive it if it was offered to me reasonably...? ...Yes. I will always remain sympathetic to the true homebuilder, and will offer what I have to them at reasonable prices. I could go on with other designs that I have started, and for various reasons, not finished. That would be a whole other subject...Ed
Topaz...I overlooked your last post...Thank you for reminding me of that. I will look into it.
That's the section/thread we are currently on...I should have paid attention to the heading. I need to slow down and read everything.
Fair enough. And I understand your vendor-perspective complaints. Food may have been expensive in the past, but it seems to be one thing that has been corrected. Sorry for the OT-quibble.
Ed, what are your thoughts for those whole enjoy working on developing new designs but not interested in entering the kit business? If the plans business is more or less no longer viable, does this mean that new designs (other than those by kit manufacturers) are destined to be one-offs, built for love rather than business?
Mcrae.....Yes, I believe so....I am an example of that, with what I am doing today, as opposed to 25 years ago. There are several things I would like to try before I check out, and they have no future in the plans and kit arena. One of them, the ''Zippy 2", is designed and half built, to satisfy my desire for a good performing roomy two place. It is so similar to a Tailwind, a Daphne, or a Buttercup, that I would be wasting my time making it commercially available. I think 'one offs' are cool. They satisfy the designers need to create, with minimal liability as compared to a design with hundreds of examples flying around.
Many times, one-offs are put together and flown for some time, and people who see the product decide they want one also, and contact the designer looking for plans and kits. Sometimes the designer goes ahead with producing a set of plans, sometimes not. Ralph Mong flew the prototype Mong Sport for a few years before making drawings available, and only did so because enough people contacted him wanting one for themselves. He told me that the original Idea was for him to have his own personal sport biplane, with no intentions of it ever going further...
I also have my own design, the "VEEBEE" which is a 'Supervee' (Formula Vee type) half built, which should be faster than a V-Witt or a Sonerai, but if there is no competitions to vent it thru, It may just end up a one of a Kind.
Same goes with my "Sport Fleet", a 85% sized Fleet Biplane, which is so similar in size and Mission to a Hatz Biplane, I find it hardly worth the effort to produce plans and kits.......
Some designers are not selling plans or kits, but rather are building reproductions of the original for future new owners.
I don't know the legalities.
Isn't EAA chartered as a non-profit organization?
The contract food vendors are definitely there to make a profit and even with some charging a 500% markup on their goods and services, I get that. I either figure out a way around it or I support them.
I agree completely with what raceair says, it's no longer an organization for its members. It's all about the money.
I was all set to go this year even though I don't like crowds over five or six people, then discovered the hotel rates went from about $80.00 a night to about $600.00 (During Oshgosh) ... I like the EAA too (getting a little glitzy) but I refuse to get ripped off... I'll never go. I wanted to look at engines mostly but found what I wanted (Verner) without having to deal with all that hype.
That is by no means exclusive to aviation events. I live close to a NASCAR track. I know exactly what day the prices increase before a race and it's across the board on everything. Hotel, groceries, gasoline, used cars, etc. Anything to make a buck.
Had a good time at EAA this year instead of staying home sulking about high prices (which I have done in the past). The cost for camping in Scholler's hay field is not that expensive in camping terms. When my kids were younger we would take one day off from the fly-in and go to a waterpark in the Dells. I found it was better to get up early, drive to the Dells and come back to EAA in the evening vs towing he camper to the Dells and camping there because campgrounds in the Wisconsin Dells area charge more per night. Yeah, I am the original cheap bastard.
Apparently, this isn't available anymore. The website doesn't exist and the email address is no good. CC
That's because the original post is 10 years old. Read the rest of the thread... Hart Aero is defunct, and Doug Hart got in trouble for fraud.
Moderator Note: Thread closed and locked.
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