Hart Aero be careful/ripoff

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Broken dream

Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2010
Messages
7
Location
Rocklin, CA
I have become a member of your bulletin board for the main purpose of spreading the word about Hart Aero. As of 2/10/2009 Hart Aero has had the total price for a ready to fly Sweet Pea ultralight. His last email to me was 9/28/09. Hart Aero/ Doug Hart does not deliver. I even visited his home/factory on 9/15/09 to pick up my Sweet Pea but He had not even started it yet when I asked for my money back he said that it was used to buy the parts and they are "on order". To make a long story short he has promised to have my plane ready since May 2009. He now has a new plane the "HartBird" but watch out. So far there is only one and again no flying photos/video, reviews of it flying yet he is already selling kits and pay as you go contracts. I can give you the whole story but right now just want your members to watch out for Hart Aero. I have also contacted the EAA, Better Business Bureau and the Missouri Attorney generals office but so far they have not been able to get a response from Doug Hart. If any of your members want to contact me I will gladly give them details. Thanks
 

bmcj

Well-Known Member
HBA Supporter
Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Messages
13,746
Location
Fresno, California
I'm sorry about your troubles and I understand your frustration. You may have noticed that Doug is also a member of this forum, and I suspect you may get a response here (either public post or private message).

Let me state that my impressions of Doug tell me that he is not a crook. He is certainly stretched too thin (he has stated that himself), and he may or may not be the best business manager, but I do not believe his motives to be underhanded... just, perhaps, poorly managed. I know that Doug is trying to divest himself of s

Though it is no excuse, many aircraft businesses run behind the powercurve due to built-in costs and a limited market. I certainly wish you the best and hope that Doug can make things right with you. I know that Doug is trying to divest himself of some of his designs so that he can focus better on his service to the customers that remain. Perhaps this move will be his tool to help settle outstanding obligations.
 

Broken dream

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Joined
Jan 29, 2010
Messages
7
Location
Rocklin, CA
I am afraid that you have fallen for Mr. Hart's false statements. In your reply you state, "I know that Doug is trying to divest himself of some of his designs so that he can focus better on his service to the customers that remain". The problem is that all the other designs that he claimed were his were actually designs of Don R. Light of Liteflite Aircraft. The designer pulled all rights for Hart Aero to produce or sell plans or kits on April 27, 2009 for failure to live up to his contract. I stood in his shop on 9/15/09 and he looked me in the eye and showed me wings on the wall, a redrive, tailpieces that he claimed were mine and said he could not refund my money because all the parts were on order for my plane. Either that was a lie or there is a big pile of parts sitting in his shop with my name on it that need to be made into an aircraft. If the latter why will he not contact me with a time frame. The other problem is that I know of no picture, review, video (flying or otherwise) or builders comments regarding the Sweet Pea. If anyone knows of any I would sure like to see them. I believed Mr. Hart when he told me he had "many planes he designed flying and did not have any structural failures". I fell for it too, but if there is not a flying Sweet Pea and all the other designs were not his I guess his statement is true. Does anyone have a video of him flying one of his own designs. As far as I know the Sweet Pea was his first design but has it ever been in the air?
 

Hart Aero

Banned
Joined
Apr 15, 2007
Messages
96
Location
Willow Springs Missouri
Mr Pat Nolan and Everyone,

Mr Nolan ordered a ready to fly Sweet Pea ultralight Mid February of 2008 on a 24 month layaway plan. His completed aircraft is due by Mid March, 2010.

Mr Nolan did payoff his layaway early, but our production has not been able to accomodate early delivery.

I have made an effort to complete his aircraft early, but aircraft ordered prior to his order have had to take priority.

For what it's worth, I no longer offer layaway plans. It became quite clear to me several months ago that a layaway plan in theory was great, but in reality was very bad.

The good(theory part) is it gets the customer locked in at a set price and I can plan production needs quite easily and the company has a know cash flow - months ahead of time.

The reality (bad part) is that nearly everyone that started a layaway plan, paid off early and the customer expected their aircraft nearly immediately. My production planning, manpower and shop size couldn't handle it and most customers have had to wait out their layaway plan length.

Mr. Nolan was here at my shop, he clearly saw that our shop was full with aircraft in all stages of progress and we even had one sitting outside the shop being worked on, he was also shown sub assemblies of his aircraft.

Mr. Nolan, I wish you would have made at least 1 phone call to me before posting here. I have not received any other corrospondance from you.

I'll be the first to admit that my communication has been terrible. I have been and am making changes to improve this significantly.

I have also made other changes to streamline production and speed up deliveries.

I have reduced the number of aircraft I produce from 10 to 2. The Hart Bird I and Hart Bird II share many of the same parts. I've reduced total custom parts counts (all aircraft combined) from over 12,000 parts down to about 600 parts between the Hart Bird I and II. I do plan to re-introduce the Sweet Pea line after I have the Hart Bird production streamlined.

I have introduced a 3,6 and 12 month payment plan for Hart Bird I quick build kits only. At each payment, sub-kits are shipped. Early payoff will not be a problem now as each day of each week is scheduled to produce certain parts and sub-kits.

Lead times are now clearly defined for kit and sub-kits on our order form.

I also no longer accept orders for ready to fly aircraft. Those of you that have actually finished an aircraft know that 90% of the time and effort is in the finish work. Additionally, I'm very particular with fabric and paint work and if temperature and humidity aren't within limits it is delayed. Most don't understand this.

Sincerely,
Doug Hart
 

Broken dream

Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2010
Messages
7
Location
Rocklin, CA
You have to be kidding. You have not answered one phone call since 2 days prior to my arrival at your shop on 9/15/09. If you claim my plane is not due until March 2010 why did you tell me that you would have it done late April or early May then when I arrive at your shop on 9/15/2009 why did you tell me that you could not give me a refund because all the parts were on order and would bring it out with another plane that you were delivering to Las Vegas late September or Early October. How could all my parts be on order if you were not planning on building it until March 2010. This is the very first time that you have mentioned a March 2010 delivery date. I have sent you emails in a steady stream. All my emails in the last few months contain my address and phone number. I sent you an email on 12/29, 1/13, 1/28 and 1/29 but got no response. Why you trying to make me the bad guy. You are the one that has had the full purchase price of the Sweet Pea for 1 year as of 2/10/2010. I also want to know the name of your other designs that you have built and flew that were not Don Light's designs and where I can see videos, pictures and talk to other builders of them. Has a Sweet Pea ever flowen? If so where are the pictures or video of the plane or review by the pilot?
 

Broken dream

Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2010
Messages
7
Location
Rocklin, CA
As of today, 3/25/10, I have still not heard from Hart Aero or Doug Hart. I do not have a refund or aircraft. The issue is now in the hands of the Howell County Sheriff and the Missouri Attorney Generals Office.
 

vortilon

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Joined
Jul 7, 2009
Messages
453
Location
Marana AZ USA
Broken Dream
I can certainly see your frustration. But you must remember we are in an economic depression and things don't always go as planned during hard times especially in the aviation business of which I am in. I have known Doug for some time and never thought of him as a crook. Things are down right scary for all us in the business right now and I have been selling all my treasures on e-bay just to try and pay the bills. Aviat has just layed off 20 workers because of the slow down. All of us are feeling the pain. Now writing such things on a public forum about him will only make his business that much more distressed and your chances of getting your product that much less. I suggest the two of you come together on a plan that will be in the best interest of all. In these economic times extended dead lines are the norm. Doug you know what to do and Broken Dreams work with him.

I feel like this is none of my business but since it is posted here "well" ??
 

inventing_man

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Joined
Aug 30, 2008
Messages
108
Wow ....this is depressing . March 2010 Delivery , 2 years to build, paid for early and in full , ...and its April now with no plane, and no feed back From Hart . Dude , Forget streamlining you building process. Get busy with streamlining your customer relations! This is kill'in you. When you do a search for Hart Aero, the first half the search page is SCAM reports ! How the hell are you going to survive that ?
Here is a post that died ( and died open ended) some time ago..same deal but just looking for info of all things . https://www.homebuiltairplanes.com/forums/light-stuff-area/6273-no-contact.html
Again..... asking for Actual owner builder / fly reports of this aircraft. No Reply AGAIN and Thus no visit from me . Not wasting my time. Dead end. Cha- ching No sale . And I have cash in hand
This leads to the obvious . This aircraft is NOT a proven design ! And i dont think there is one in the air at all. :tired: This reeks of a ponzi scheme. Your money is building someone else's plane , while he's waiting on someone to pay for yours. OOPS ! Gas and materail just doubled in price and the economy just tanked OMG! Now what ?? Stall them .... maybe someone will give me some money to build Them a plane so I can finish these others. .. But the problem is , How are you going to sell more stuff, when you dont reply to your e mails and phone calls , or even follow up on your posts here ?
What a Shame . Such a nice looking bird too.
OH ! and I never did get a e mail back or PM ...nothing.
 
Last edited:

bob.shea

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Joined
May 24, 2009
Messages
74
Location
wonderlake IL USA
I have owned my companies for 20 years in good times and bad, If a job is being paid for when job is completed then you can have delays. But when a job is paid in full at the start of the job, Delivery must be made on time. Thats the reason to pay up front. In my way of thinking, if you cannot or think you my not make the delivery date, don't take the job to begin with.
 

inventing_man

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Joined
Aug 30, 2008
Messages
108
I have owned my companies for 20 years in good times and bad, If a job is being paid for when job is completed then you can have delays. But when a job is paid in full at the start of the job, Delivery must be made on time. Thats the reason to pay up front. In my way of thinking, if you cannot or think you my not make the delivery date, don't take the job to begin with.
What about Customer relations Bob. Is This not the life blood of any Co. and MORE important than the product could ever be?
Hart dont seem to get that for some reason.
Busy or not is No excuse for whats happening . That excuse is a cop out and a dodge to avoid the real issue.
 

needswings

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2006
Messages
111
Arrested for theft says a lot, but not as much as convicted. Innocent until proven guilty and all that.

That said, it certainly looks bad for Hart Aero and I suspect it'll be the death knell.

Normally I wouldn't put to much faith in news articles that confirms its story by going to a website, especially one as non-impartial as that one. The comments from prosecutor and Attorney General does more to confirm it in my opinion.
 

wvflyguy

Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2008
Messages
16
Location
West Virginia (southern part)
I got that same link on the yahoo groups cheapaircraft. It also supposedly had a letter by Mr. Hart, but I am not sure if its all correct or not... hard to say, but at the same time, I have also heard alot of info going around about scams...
 

pwood66889

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Joined
Feb 10, 2007
Messages
1,860
Location
Sopchoppy, Florida, USA
"It also supposedly had a letter by Mr. Hart, but I am not sure if its all correct or not... hard to say, but at the same time, I have also heard alot of info going around about scams."

Interesting observation. I still have only one report of a person actually going up there and seeing what was going on. Any body been by there lately?
Percy in SE Bama
 

inventing_man

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2008
Messages
108
yawn....... Nothing new . hart aero is no more . courts will decide the rewards to the victims from the confiscations of property.
Yep ... dude was a crook and a crock pot, and bad at both.
 

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