For Sale Good Looking Long-EZ $20K

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Victor Bravo

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Ran across this just now, looks like a really interesting find for someone wanting a canard.

If you'z a bargain hunting gangsta wanna go fast and roll up wit' da bling, you best git off yo' ass and pick up da phone...

 

Hephaestus

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Hate the terminology.

Does it have an N number and it's 40hours flown off?
 

wsimpso1

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The mention of it being ready to fly makes me think the 40 hours have not been flown off. That really complicates things.
 

TFF

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You may or may not be able to get a ferry permit to move it to your airport before you fly off the 40 hours. Worst case would be trucking or flying off the time where it is at. If you do move it before time flown off, you have to get revised operating instructions for the new location testing. I know of a plane that got caught. The FAA could have fined any pilot that had flown it and owner, but to keep people’s records clear, they let the revised instructions sit on a desk for about three months. Parked for three months.
 

Victor Bravo

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Hate the terminology.
Mine or the seller's?

I was just being a smart ass (as usual), and rest assured that I do indeed come from the other side of the (educational, cultural, behavioral, pharmaceutical) tracks from the terminology I used in that post.

So to soothe the abrasion I've apparently caused dear Festus, the next bargain find I dig up on Craigslist, I'll try to post the details in the style of Robert Service, or a Haiku or some kind of lilting verse :)
 
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Victor Bravo

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The mention of it being ready to fly makes me think the 40 hours have not been flown off. That really complicates things.
Although I know it has unfortunately been done differently many times, the first flight on a new E-AB should not ever be a cross-country ferry flight. That's putting five bullets in the revolver instead of one.

The Long-EZ is reasonably trailerable, I'm confident a large number of them have been moved that way. There's just no legitimate reason that could remotely justify the risk to combine first flight, flight test, owner familiarization, and ferry flight at the same time.
 

Hephaestus

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Mine or the seller's?

I was just being a smart ass (as usual), and rest assured that I do indeed come from the other side of the (educational, cultural, behavioral, pharmaceutical) side of the tracks as the terminology I used in that post.

So to soothe the abrasion I've apparently caused dear Festus, the next bargain find I dig up on Craigslist, I'll try to post the details in the style of Robert Service, or a Haiku or some kind of lilting verse :)
Actually it was the ads.

While it might fit in a trailer - when a border crossing is involved, it's one thing to import a homebuilt that's registered and completed it's initial test phase.

Whereas if that's not already done - it's parts.

And a friend of mine is actively looking for a decent EZ right now. And your right it looks quite nice compared to the junk we've seen in 2020.
 

pfarber

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The mention of it being ready to fly makes me think the 40 hours have not been flown off. That really complicates things.
Its either a great negotiating tool (there is nothing high end on this E/AB, if he wants it gone he can pay to ship it or knock $5k off the price) or fly it at a local airfield (take 2 weeks off work, 2 hours AM and 2 hours PM is doable) and have the builder right there for any tweaks. If flown locally then sale would be conditional on passing 40 hours.

Are these onerous conditions? Yepper. Buyers market.
 

kent Ashton

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Should be EZ. Get a bill of sale from the owner. Get proof (builder's log, pictures, receipts) sufficient to prove the aircraft was built by amateurs. Trailer it home. Register the aircraft in the buyer's name. If no Airworthiness Certificate was issued before, apply for one. Fly off the test hours at your home airport according to Operating Limitations issued with the A.C. If you did sufficient work on it to make it flyable, you might also get a Repairman's Certificate but that is less certain.
 

TFF

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A friend flew off his plane in 40 hours in two months to get it to Oshkosh. He was tired of flying his airplane like a job. He had his regular job to deal with, plus family. He flys a bunch relatively and has the money to fly as much as he wants, but it was getting old testing and being stuck in a box. That EZ probably gets 6gal to the hour, so $1000 of fuel at $4. If you have to fix anything will eat up time too.

On the Biplane Forum, one of the members finished his plane, had someone lined up to fly off the 40 as he was not current, and the guy crashed it on the first takeoff. Salvage was bought and is being rebuilt, but dude was done. Same forum, another sold his perfect restored Cub, ferry pilot crashes it on takeoff going to the new owner. It’s probably rebuilt now too

An EZ might not get insurance with a new owner and no experience with one. You have to be able to cover losses.
A friend bought one built 20+ years ago and it cost him $40k and still needed some updates. If the craftsmanship is good, it’s a deal.
 

Victor Bravo

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(there is nothing high end on this E/AB,

Buyers market.
180-200 mph on 7.5 gallons an hour, long XC range, two place with modest comfort, has known excellent "fighter jet like" handling, exciting looks compared to "standard", is still a known safe/conservative low-risk structure. For 20 grand. What other aircraft competes with this for that price, even now in the current economy?
 

PagoBay

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If no Airworthiness Certificate was issued before, apply for one.
Advert Says..."....and signed off to fly " Should be the Airworthiness Certificate and Operating Limitations are there. Does look like a well done build.

How big a ferry tank is needed to reach Hawaii and then on to Guam? Heard of such before. Only the brave, I guess.

Especially with this report...."...the guy crashed it on the first takeoff. >>>ferry pilot crashes it on takeoff going to the new owner."
 

edwisch

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I know of one Glastar that was two weeks to taxi. FAA required five hours local then let it fly home in a ferry permit to finish flight test. It’s not what you read, it’s what you negotiate.
 

wsimpso1

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Advert Says..."....and signed off to fly " Should be the Airworthiness Certificate and Operating Limitations are there. Does look like a well done build.
The typical test flight time is 40 hours with a test area local to the base airport. Can not fly outside until test time is satisfied. This wording makes most of us think that it has not flown...

If he had flown off test time, the ad might have best said "test time flown off".

How big a ferry tank is needed to reach Hawaii and then on to Guam? Heard of such before.
While someone might have fuel burn rates vs airspeed for this bird, I doubt that they will be any good. Props and engine installs and airframe drag all vary. This is one of the tasks of the flight test period - find the fuel burn rates over the range of cruise speeds for your engine and prop.

Unless the operating restrictions for the 40 hour test period get you over the ocean, you will not be legal to commence the adventurous journey. Trying the scofflaw approach might get you to Guam with illegal flights (Guam is still US, right?) then you would still have to get new operating restrictions in Guam.

Then there is the little issue of ADS-B out being legally required within all Mode C veil.

To do it legally, you would need new operating restrictions for the ferry tanks too.

Especially with this report...."...the guy crashed it on the first takeoff. >>>ferry pilot crashes it on takeoff going to the new owner."
Always heart breaking. We had a CFI destroy a Midget Mustang II while hot dogging in the pattern here at ARB after delivering the bird for the new owner. No insurance and no recourse on the instructor - he died in the spin/stall crash and had practically zero assets...
 
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Victor Bravo

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How big a ferry tank is needed to reach Hawaii and then on to Guam?
No need to worry about that, the container ship already has more than enough fuel in the tank to get the EZ there to you.

The bigger problem is - what would you be able to do with a Long-EZ in Guam? How many 2500 foot paved smooth airports are there? How many places can you use (the Long EZ's fantastic range and speed) to visit, without having to file stacks and stacks of paperwork every time?
 

Marc Zeitlin

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If I wanted a LongEZ, I would already be talking to the dude and to my local FSDO. It is a bargain. I hope someone scoops it up and puts it to work.
I was hoping to stay out of this conversation, but... OCD, and all that.

As a preface, I do a LOT of CI's and Pre-Buy exams on Rutan derivative canard composite aircraft, so I've gotten mildly competent at judging planes at a distance, and better at doing so in person.

While on the face of it, this looks like a "bargain", it may or may not be - a lot more information would be needed before saying so conclusively. Here's what I see/glean from the listing and the pictures, in no particular order:
  • There are two different paint colors - one on the main portion of the aircraft, and one on the cowls and rudders. What does this mean? Don't know, but would want to ask
  • Has GU canard - will be susceptible to trim changes in rain/contamination
  • Has old "football" wheelpants - gives up a few kts over the pressure recovery style pants
  • Has manual nose gear retract system - for those of us with crappy backs, this is problematic
  • Has been sitting for <n> years - has the engine been pickled? Redding, CA is not a particularly wet place, but it's not the desert, either
  • Need to see complete build/aircraft/engine logs
  • No W&B info listed - this is VERY important
  • Has not flown, was registered with AC but is now deregistered (so AC is expired)
  • Discrepancies between dates that can be seen on image 10 on AC and statements in aircraft description
  • Description states 2 NAV, 2 COM - there is only one of each in the panel
  • Description states ILS capability but no CDI is installed
  • Everything in the panel is ancient - even if it works, the Terra equipment is not supported, nor is the 196 nor the RMI microencoder in the center
  • There is no indication of the time on the engine, notwithstanding the age and pickling issues
  • I don't give a crap if the builder had allergic reactions to the epoxy he used or not
  • Removable fuselage top over IP is a good thing for access
  • I like the strake LE air intakes
  • The interior looks clean, but the upholstery hardly looks like it's from a plane that has never been used or flown
  • Baffling on the engine looks ancient and used - again, where'd this engine come from on a brand new plane, and what's its provenance and state?
  • The deregistration info on the FAA database indicates it was built in 1983 (which is certainly consistent with the IP components and look of the plane), and deregistered in 2013, before the builder states it was completed. Makes no sense
That's just what I can see from the pics. Obviously don't know what I'd see in person, but in my experience, things always look better in pics than they do in real life, sadly.

So, is this a bargain? It absolutely could be - no question. But it could also be worth less than what it would cost to cart it away, depending - do the IP components work after sitting for "N" years? Is the engine a pile of rust? What would it cost to refurb the engine and IP to a new owner's requirements? Is it heavy or light? We don't know. With answers to all of the above, it would be possible to determine whether $20K is reasonable for this plane, but without them, it's mere speculation, and the discrepancies in the builder's description and what can be seen don't give me warm fuzzies.

This is what I would tell someone who asked me to do a Pre-Buy on the plane. They we'd try to collect all the above info, and decide whether to move forward with the PB.
 
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