Glider flight training - Takeoff Hand Position

Discussion in 'Hangar Flying' started by jedi, Feb 15, 2019.

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  1. Feb 15, 2019 #1

    jedi

    jedi

    jedi

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    From post #49 of from Rules and Regulations / Flight Safety / Better Pilots The “impossible” turn and the “startle effect”
    And carryover from Post #57 of from Rules and Regulations / Flight Safety / Better Pilots The “impossible” turn and the “startle effect” Originally Posted by jedi

    I would like more discussion on the bold print. There are other opinions.

    Followed by a reply from Topaz "A good topic for another thread."

    So, here we go.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2019
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  2. Feb 15, 2019 #2

    jedi

    jedi

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    Re: Glider flight training - akeoff

    Most of my glider time is with an aero tow launch. The following is what I use and teach.

    Right hand on the stick. Left hand on the spoiler for takeoff and tow. Discussion of left hand function (on spoilers not on tow release) follows.

    Reasons:

    1. Hand on release could result in unwanted release.
    2. Hand on spoiler helps to insure spoilers are closed.
    3. If spoilers deploy uncommanded, it can be quickly detected and corrected.
    4. If a abort on the landing area is required applying spoilers is more effective than releasing the tow to shorten landing distance.
    5. If the tow is released prior to spoiler application I will overrun the tow rope and can not verify a successful release.
    6. I can change my mind on spoiler application. I can not change my mind on tow release.
    7. I can not trust a student to not release the tow line if his hand is on the tow release.
    8. Once airborne the hand should be on the spoiler for slack line recovery.
    9. Tow release is a multi step process. Decide, verify then act. Moving the hand to the release allows time for the decide and verify prior to act.
    10. The tow pilot can feel that I am off tow.

    I am anxious to learn about your training and reasons. I have not done any searches of literature on procedures. A letter to SSA may be a good project.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2019
  3. Feb 15, 2019 #3

    Topaz

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    Actually, I think you're right and I simply misspoke. It's been pushing five years since I've been flying, and in thinking back through it, I think you're right. Obviously I need to spend some time with an instructor before I go up again.

    It blows that I haven't been flying for so long. But with what's been going on, I simply haven't been able to do it. I probably should. It'd do me good to get some air under my wings.
     
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  4. Feb 15, 2019 #4

    jedi

    jedi

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    It is an all to common problem and a good part of the reason soaring and GA in general is in decline. Lets all try and work to fix that by designing and building better, more useful and less expensive aircraft.

    I think I speak for everybody on HBA when I say thank you all for the good work you are doing towards the cause.

    PS - As your flight instructor I would also like to point out that the spoilers tend to be modulated way too much during the approach and that I remain ready and willing to work with you on that needed "Self Launch" endorsement. "Motor Gliders" have it over "Airplane" and both can be "Light Sport". None of the light sport limitations need to apply to a motor glider. Examples include altitude, speeds, retractable gear, feathering prop, etc.

    I am currently working with the PSSA (Puget Sound Soaring Association) presentation for the PNWATS (Pacific North West Aviation Trade Show) on a project to educate power pilots on the benefits and ease of getting a Light Sport Pilot Glider endorsement.

    I will post the talking points here shortly.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2019
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  5. Feb 15, 2019 #5

    ypsilon

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    I keep the hand on the yellow ball only during winch-launches, not during aerotow.
    Why? First, you don't need breaks during a winch launch, because they won't get you out of any undesirable situation anyway.
    Second, about half of the deadly winch launch accidents are like this:
    wingtip touching the ground before take-off, getting caught in long grass, then the glider will "do the wheel" and eventually land upside down right on the pilots head.
    When you realise your wing runner isn't up to the job or some turbulence makes your ailerons ineffective in the wrong moment, you have about half a second to release, so you should really be prepared to do it.
    The really dangerous part of the winch launch ends after you get into the steep position at around 50-70m of altitude. It takes about 3-5 seconds until you reach this position. Thank god, even my attention span is longer than that.
     
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  6. Feb 15, 2019 #6

    BoKu

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    Where I fly, we often start the takeoff with a quartering tailwind. So I keep my hand on or near the tow release during the ground roll, then move to the airbrake handle when I'm fairly sure I'm not going to have an excursion. I specifically designed the airbrake handle so that it is unobtrusive when stowed, and a glaring intrusion when deployed, so I'm not particularly worried about an unintended and unnoticed airbrake deployment.
     
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  7. Feb 15, 2019 #7

    jedi

    jedi

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    As promised in post #4, the following talking points are aimed at power pilots who are looking for alternatives to expand their flying skills and keep expenses under control and for those without access to a low cost airplane. I. E. Those spending $250/hr. or more for a routine flight from a high density airport.

    Attention Pilots - Add a Light Sport Glider Rating for as little as $700


    Reference: FAA Special CFR Title 14 Part 61 Subpart J Sport Pilots

    No FAA written test required. Save $250
    No FAA examiner flight test required. Save $500
    No FAA Medical required Save $100 to $1000 dollars and avoid the possible loss of all other flight privileges.

    61.315 (c) Seven flights, 3 hours, minimum. Average cost $100 per flight.
    As with all pilot ratings costs will vary depending on student capabilities and learning abilities. Could be as low as $350 with 2,000 foot tows and 0.7 hours average per flight at some clubs. Typical costs should be less than $1,000.

    A proposed flight schedule follows. Actual flight schedule is dependent upon local weather conditions and other variables.

    Flight #1. Dual flight with 3,000 foot tow. Aircraft familiarization and maneuvers per 61.311.
    Flight #2. Dual flight with 2,000 foot tow. Aircraft familiarization and maneuvers per 61.311.
    Flight #3. Dual flight with 1,000 foot tow. Normal operations, maneuvers and landing per 61.311.
    Flight #4. Dual flight with 1,000 foot tow. Emergency procedures, maneuvers and landing per 61.311.
    Flight #5. . Solo flight with 3,000 foot tow. Aircraft familiarization and maneuvers per 61.311.
    Total solo flight time 1 hour minimum.
    Flight #6. Practice test dual with first CFI. 3,000 foot tow. Perform maneuvers per 61.311.
    Five dual flights required with total flight time of 3 hours.
    Flight #7. Practical test with second CFI. 3,000 foot tow. Perform maneuvers per 61.311.

    Above flight training must be accomplished within a two month period.

    All future flights are as PIC (Pilot In Command) with friends, family or additional dual. Become a Commercial Glider Pilot and/or Light Sport Glider CFI with as little as 20 more flights. 61.129 (f)(2) and 61.141 (b)(2). A Subpart H Glider CFI requires 15 hours PIC in gliders.

    Note: Applicant must have the minimum power pilot flight times as specified in the referenced regulations.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2019
  8. Feb 15, 2019 #8

    jedi

    jedi

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    Agreed. For a winch launch the left hand is on the release from hookup to top of climb and release to negate the possibility of a premature launch.

    For self launch the free hand is on the throttle and use caution to guard against inadvertent spoiler deployment. Not an uncommon occurrence at liftoff in more that one of the common designs.
     

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