Geared Drives

Discussion in 'Chevy' started by akbuilder, Jan 26, 2007.

Help Support HomeBuiltAirplanes Forum by donating:

  1. Aug 26, 2009 #21

    BoeveP51

    BoeveP51

    BoeveP51

    Well-Known Member Lifetime Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2008
    Messages:
    97
    Likes Received:
    10
    Location:
    Spring Hill, FL - formerly W. Ossipee, NH
    "Bud Warren- I get the impression that these are automotive components being used for the clutch drive. No known engineering analysis, seems risky to me."

    Bud's clutch assembly is not automotive. His design totally. Before making assumptions I would recommend you talk with him and then form an opinion.

    PS: I don't have Bud's unit, I have a Geschwender. But if I were out looking then Bud's unit would be first on my list.

    Merle
     
  2. Aug 26, 2009 #22

    orion

    orion

    orion

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2003
    Messages:
    5,800
    Likes Received:
    135
    Location:
    Western Washington
    I know or have researched some of these, some more in depth than others - I'll just make a few comments where I'm somewhat familiar with the design or program.

    Probably the best designed and most robust drive out there - too bad retirement pretty much put the business out to pasture. Silent chain drives are probably the toughest and least prone to failure out there but they do have very specific design requirements which when not met properly could lead to short chain lives. But then this holds true for gears also.

    The chain selection must be made specific to the design condition since these components do have limitations on surface speeds. In my work though I've found fine pitch chains that can handle even a Mazda's 6,000 rpm plus environment quite well so choice is not a limiting factor here.


    At first glance this seems a very professionally built product. However, reading the myriads of pages at the web site, little details start coming out, details that seem to reveal that the author may not be as familiar with his subject matter as the prolific wordiness might suggest. The best example of this is the discussion of torsional vibration, where certain statements and omissions suggest that the author may not necessarily understand the problem.

    Another good company gone due to retirement. I met the owner/engineer some years back and was very impressed with his understanding of the flight issues and his engineering approach. This was a very good product - too bad no-one seems to be willing to pick it up and run with it.

    Wasn't this the belt drive that was developed and produced here in Washington State? Although I didn't like some of the details, the overall product was well made and with a bit of refinement, could have been a real contender in the market. First the company was producing redrive and engine packages and then later, just the redrives. But yes, eventually I think it just folded up - I haven't heard from the owner in years.

    Don't have any first hand experience with this one however, looking at the cases he designs, I'd say that he does not take any account of the flight loads developed by the prop and thus provides no reasonable load paths for those loads to smoothly get resolved in the engine case or engine mount. The Subaru case is downright awful - the drive mechanism looks OK but I wouldn't fly behind it. The V-8 housing does not seem any better.

    Another redrive that is simply inadequate for properly handling the flight loads. Here though it seems like they might have an idea of the problem so they made all the components out of a massive plate so some stability is possible. But personally, I'd still consider this to be a poor design.
     
  3. Aug 26, 2009 #23

    flywulf

    flywulf

    flywulf

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2008
    Messages:
    109
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Los Angeles California USA
    Who is the engineer?

    Are there any other units on or near the market?

    Ed
     
  4. Aug 27, 2009 #24

    will5023

    will5023

    will5023

    Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2008
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    England
  5. Aug 28, 2009 #25

    MKIV

    MKIV

    MKIV

    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2009
    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    New Zealand
    Will, look like fairly substantial belts, another design that had multiple belts found that if any one belt failed it was likely to takethe other/s with it, but with that open cavity below the chance of that happening would be reduced, however the actual shape of the a/c nose bowl would have some influence that as well.. be interesting to see how it pans out long term & what others say.

    Jac.
     
  6. Aug 28, 2009 #26

    pepsi71ocean

    pepsi71ocean

    pepsi71ocean

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2009
    Messages:
    191
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    South New Jersey
    be careful about the red drives, there were a couple of companies that made red-drives that were horrible and broke apart.

    A good gearbox has more to do with harmonics and torque reversals then it does anything else.
     
  7. Aug 31, 2009 #27

    flywulf

    flywulf

    flywulf

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2008
    Messages:
    109
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Los Angeles California USA
    Bud's clutch assembly is not automotive. His design totally. Before making assumptions I would recommend you talk with him and then form an opinion.

    PS: I don't have Bud's unit, I have a Geschwender. But if I were out looking then Bud's unit would be first on my list.

    Merle[/quote]

    My impression of his design are from reading his info on his web-site and viewing his published video clips. And yes it looks like automotive technology applied to aviation to me. Last time I checked the laws of physics hadn't been revised. I don't see that talking with the designer will change my opinion. Whether you agree with me or not. My impression of his work is formed from his published material. Once again it is just my personal opinion.

    Ed
     
  8. Sep 2, 2009 #28

    Rom

    Rom

    Rom

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2006
    Messages:
    489
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    Medina, Ohio
    Has there been a consideration of magnetic gears for use in a reduction unit?

    Here is something of interest to look at: Infolytica » Gallery » Magnetic Gear

    They would eliminate the need for torsional dampening.
    Frictional heat would be eliminated. No energy loss due to heat.
    No wearing parts except for the shaft and bearings; no gears and belts.

    Mark
     
  9. Sep 2, 2009 #29

    flywulf

    flywulf

    flywulf

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2008
    Messages:
    109
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Los Angeles California USA
    That certainly is an interesting concept. How would you mate it to my engine?

    Ed
     
  10. Sep 2, 2009 #30

    bmcj

    bmcj

    bmcj

    Well-Known Member HBA Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2007
    Messages:
    12,963
    Likes Received:
    4,899
    Location:
    Fresno, California
    I've sometimes wondered if a reduction drive could be done with magnetic fields (or hydraulics). Another area I thought might be able to use magnets is in a steerable tailwheel with a magnetic "detente". A strong enough magnetic field could keep the wheel locked into the steering arm, but could be broken free to swivel with enough force.

    P.S. - I think your magnetic compass would hate a magnetic redrive, not to mention the radios.
     
  11. Sep 2, 2009 #31

    Rom

    Rom

    Rom

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2006
    Messages:
    489
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    Medina, Ohio
    The starter and generator do not seem to have a strong affect on the compass or radio. The redrive would sit way out in front of the engine. The magnet field lines would be contained in a magnet gear the same as in an electric motor would I would think.
     
  12. Sep 19, 2009 #32

    Alan Waters

    Alan Waters

    Alan Waters

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2009
    Messages:
    530
    Likes Received:
    79
    Location:
    Conover N.C.
  13. Sep 19, 2009 #33

    Dan Thomas

    Dan Thomas

    Dan Thomas

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Messages:
    4,871
    Likes Received:
    2,083
    Bud warren, IIRC, has been working on his redrive since I first read about it in the 1970s sometime. That's if my memory is correct. If he's been developing it that long there should be numerous successful Warren drives flying. Are there?

    Dan
     
  14. May 20, 2011 #34

    blainepga

    blainepga

    blainepga

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2011
    Messages:
    69
    Likes Received:
    14
    Location:
    Queen Creek, AZ 85142
    Bud Warren was an engineer working for NASA. He has a history in drag racing and he had an inate mechanical knowledge. As an engineer, I was looking for some sort of reduction drive for my project and wasn't satisfied with most of what was out there. I met Bud at the Copperstate Flyin in Maricopa, AZ. What he explained to me about his unit lit a light buld in me. I am still hoping to install one of his PSRU's, but I'll have to wait until we know the status of his company. He and his daughter were killed on 5-7-2011. They were flying a customer plane to an airshow. He reported smoke in the cockpit just after takeoff.
    The NTSB has not found anything wrong with the engine(LS2) or PSRU.
     
  15. May 21, 2011 #35

    stol

    stol

    stol

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2008
    Messages:
    497
    Likes Received:
    145
    Location:
    Jackson Hole Wyoming
    xxxx
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2012
  16. May 21, 2011 #36

    blainepga

    blainepga

    blainepga

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2011
    Messages:
    69
    Likes Received:
    14
    Location:
    Queen Creek, AZ 85142
    Bud and Warren and his daughter Phyllis were killed in a crash while in flight to an airshow in Temple,TX Saturday 05/07/2011. They were in a customer aircraft. After take off they radioed that there was smoke in the cockpit and declared an emergency. They attempted to return to the airport in Conroe, TX but came up a half mile short into a very wooded area. This plane carried one of Bud's Chevy V8 conversions with his PSRU. The NTSB in their preliminary investigation has indicated they had no found any indication of mechanical failure with the engine or PSRU. From witness descriptions the airplane was flying level and the engine was turning. The plane nosed up and stalled then came down. It caught fire on impact. It appears that they were overcome by smoke and lost conciousness.
     
  17. May 21, 2011 #37

    blainepga

    blainepga

    blainepga

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2011
    Messages:
    69
    Likes Received:
    14
    Location:
    Queen Creek, AZ 85142
    I got my information from someone very close to the situation.
     
  18. Jun 24, 2011 #38

    blainepga

    blainepga

    blainepga

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2011
    Messages:
    69
    Likes Received:
    14
    Location:
    Queen Creek, AZ 85142
    The CAM series of PSRU's was purchased by Firewall Forward Aero Engines in Ontario, Canada. They produce and support the full product line including the CAM100, CAM125, CAM500. The 100 and 125 use a belt drive and are good up to 200hp. The 500 is a gear drive and good past what any sensible person could want. This company has many aircraft flying and the PSRU's have a good history for longevity.
     
  19. Apr 30, 2012 #39

    TXFlyGuy

    TXFlyGuy

    TXFlyGuy

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2012
    Messages:
    1,513
    Likes Received:
    439
    Location:
    Republic of Texas
    From what I have read, this accident is a classic "stall" resulting from trying to stretch the glide just a bit too far. Same thing happened at our local airport a few years ago, although it was not smoke related. A P-51 Mustang had just lifted off and begun it's climbout when the engine lost power (totally or partially) and the owner-pilot attempted to turn back to the runway. The result was a stall and crash which destroyed both the P-51 and the pilot.

    In the Geared-Drives case, it seems that this was not related to the powerplant.
     
  20. Dec 18, 2012 #40

    blainepga

    blainepga

    blainepga

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2011
    Messages:
    69
    Likes Received:
    14
    Location:
    Queen Creek, AZ 85142
    Bud's company assets have been purchased by a gentleman near the Ft. Worth area. A new web site will be active in a few days. It is called AutoPSRU.

    Blaine Anderson
     

Share This Page



arrow_white