FPV Freak Buys Lazair for electric conversion.

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proppastie

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Well looking at Mad web-site they have what I might need should I eventually try electric......please post.....I will let you shoot first.
 

Christian Moreton

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When I talk about my experience with multi-rotor craft, If I elaborate on that perhaps you can appreciate. If you buy an off the shelf DJI drone, the time between unbox and flight can be literally minutes. You are spending like 1 minute servicing it for every 20 minutes in the air. So easy. But if things go wrong, you're on the phone with tech support and waiting weeks or months for shipping and repairs to happen. For me that's too long so want systems that are more durable and repairable, capable of free-falls, rolls, inversions etc and survive horrible crashes.

FPV quadcopters are exactly the opposite. For every 1 minute in the air, you are spending 20 on the bench, soldering, programming, rebuilding etc. Like the F1 of drones. Much of that time (particularly 2-3 years ago) is spent arguing with the Chinese distributors like Banggood (bc wow such affordable prices). After much wasted time, much sending of photos and explanations to the service reps over there, you finally lose your **** and decide to find/support a local retailer/distributor that can stand behind the product and supply immediate replacements. In my case the home shop is ROTORGEEKS. Their support and meeting other clients of theirs was totally instrumental in me getting OPENTX, working with LUA scripts on my Taranis radio with TBS Crossfire UHF module etc etc.

So imo the FPV world is kind of a good dry run of what it will be like to buy and use these larger man-rated motors. Sadly for now local distributors don't have relationships with MAD motors, I think my best bet will be to find out from electric paragliders who is providing the reliable motors and esc's now. I have destroyed a LOT of ESC's and really would like for the ones I go with to be rated 300W, but I will rarely take them up that high. Also looking to get a cheap infrared camera gun so that I can inspect the temperature situation with these motors and ESC. My last flying model was duel electric, and I had terrible crashes at first bc the ESC airflow was not sufficient and caused overheating and loss of power in one nacelle.

So all of this electric flight I have done is more about how to manage power (OHMS LAW), overseas suppliers, having a tight unboxing and testing regement so that if/when you're on the phone with tech/warrenty support you have ALL the evidence of the problem, posting it publicly for all in the comunity to see etc.

And building an FPV quad is a great exercise in managing electrical frustration. Can spend a few hours soldering a flight control unit together with esc's and cameras etc. And you skip doing some continutiy tests to look for shorts bc who has time for that. You plug in and watch all your work disappear into little puffs of magic smoke. Unplug, desolder, add to the personal graveyard of burned out components. start over. That time ratio just went to like 50/1.

I have 2 quadcopters that have both been flying for years now. I put a lot of hard work into their builds, made all the right calls with parts and programming, and now I've had hundreds of great flights (probably hundreds of miles flown) on both. I don't have to think about them at all now, they just work perfectly and always make it home.
 
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Steve C

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There are other very similar motors with open ends that would sure cool better.

My experience with Chinese motors is that they wind them as fast as possible. I have found winding mistakes when tearing down, not to mention how much more copper you can get in it if you carefully wind it yourself.

I also have one that put tremendous load on the bearings when you tightened the prop nut. This of course led to failure, a rewind and the addition of a spacer to keep the bearing apart as in a motorcycle wheel. This motor was one of the first big Turigy offerings- 80-100 and flies a 42% scale F1 racer on 15S 9000mah lipo with a top level speed of 180mph.

They can work. If I was going to sit behind one, I'd for sure tear it down and rebuild it.
 

Christian Moreton

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not to mention how much more copper you can get in it if you carefully wind it yourself.
Thanks this is great info. IMO they are using unskilled labor and automation to wind most drone motors. What you say here makes a good case for on-shoring the production of motors we are putting in life or death situations. I'm totally willing to buy a North American made product that has an FAA approval etc.

And yes the #1 thing that gives me pause with these MAD motors is the heat issue. Motors should be almost naked and I'll make a nice radial engine type cowling around it all.

Do you have any links to motors with better air flow?
 

Christian Moreton

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proppastie

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Wow...maybe hook up with a CNC machine shop and it could be an opportunity....Imagine that..... a motor system that works as advertised right out of the box. Certainly opened my eyes more. As a mechanical designer there really is not much mechanically to them as I see it.
 

Christian Moreton

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Seeing a vid like this gives me a bit of confidence in the czech made equipment, and I appreciate the demonstration flight with power readings.

 

Dan Thomas

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I am looking at my RC experience more as experience with electric motor systems. But all my flying has been remote and so my body is not at all ready for g forces, stalls etc. I am pretty agile on my skateboard, even in a ramp/vert situation, so I know I have good balance and orientation, but will need several flights (10-20 hours) with an instructor doing stalls and many landings before I can even contemplate going solo. I'm in Canada and there is much training in permitting for ultralight required.
Having good balance and orientation doesn't help a lot. The motion in the air, along with turbulence from all those bumps you can't see, can make it difficult for the newbie. And in IFR flying, trusting your balance and orientation will kill you quick. The inner ear is useless when the visibilty is zero. It lies to you. One HAS to trust the instruments and ignore everything else. Of course, there won't be any IFR in a Lazair anyway:)

Yes, lots of upper air work. Slow flight, steep turns, stalls and spins. Illusions created by wind drift are a big deal in slow airplanes and can lead you to inadvertently skid a turn, which is dangerous. Ask your instructor to do some circuits with you on a day with strong winds. Or turns around a point at 500 feet or so.
 

Steve C

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There are many places to find these motors. Aliexpress, ebay and more. There are other sizes, but I think this one is close to what you were looking at and the price is in the same range at most places. 2017 MP15470 35KW Outrunner Brushless Motor for Electric Paramotor

You can Google 15470 brushless motor
Not a lot of choices in US made brushless motors. Certainly nothing FAA approved, but I wouldn't worry about that.

I'm sure many of the Chinese workers are quite skilled, but they must make these things quickly to sell them at the prices we see. 10 years ago they were dirt cheap. Now, quite a bit more, but still probably 1/4 of what one would cost from the US or Germany.
 
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Christian Moreton

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These are indeed the most promising I have seen. I have been googling for paramotors and also electric skate wheels which I am after, and never found this company in weeks of searching. So thanks for the link.
 

stanislavz

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Friend of a friend, have rewounded 1500watt bicycle hub motor for self launch 115kg glider. 8-12 kw of constant power. Same torque, different rpm.
 
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