ford v6's

Discussion in 'Ford' started by lou mc carrell, Jan 27, 2003.

Help Support HomeBuiltAirplanes Forum by donating:

  1. Jan 27, 2003 #1

    lou mc carrell

    lou mc carrell

    lou mc carrell

    Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2003
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Pittsburgh,Pa
  2. Jan 27, 2003 #2

    lou mc carrell

    lou mc carrell

    lou mc carrell

    Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2003
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Pittsburgh,Pa
    ford v6

    or discussed here, i'm still learning hownthis works
    lou
     
  3. Jan 30, 2003 #3

    Oscar Wilson

    Oscar Wilson

    Oscar Wilson

    Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2003
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    South East Texas
    I bought one of Dave Blanton's reduction units back in 1992
    but by the time ( about 2 years ) I received it I had sold my
    test bed ( C-175 ) plane. I bought a ford V-6 and did all the
    work as Dave recomended but never got to see how it
    worked.I sold it to a man in Kansas.It seemed like a good idea
    at the time. OOW
     
  4. Feb 2, 2003 #4

    Ben Haas

    Ben Haas

    Ben Haas

    Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2003
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    The Hole,Wyoming
    Ford v-6 / V-8

    I am putting together a V-8 Ford package for Zenith 801's, Murphy Moose's and other airframes. The Ford will work out better then a chevy the block is shorter. I am using a Belted Air redrive on the prototype and am having to modify the bolt pattern on the block plate. Remember when doing auto conversions just keep it simple and use the best parts available. Liquid cooling makes for a safer way to heat the cabin. Good Luck on your conversion.
     
  5. Feb 27, 2003 #5

    mfelling

    mfelling

    mfelling

    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2003
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA
    Blaton Ford 3.8L V6

    I recently purchased a BD-4 with a Ford 3.8L V6 conversion in it based on Blaton's designs. It was completed, but I don't believe ever ran since the power wires to the ignition modules were crossed. I've fixed that and got it to fire up but have many questions related to timing, vacum advance on distributor, covering on the exhaust pipes, and coolant system plumbing. I've published pictures and details of my questions on my website (www.markfelling.com) Just go to Aviation, BD-4 and the Renovation Log (entry for 2/22/03). Anyone that can provide comments, thoughts, or expirience in reference to my questions would be VERY appreciated!
     
  6. Mar 3, 2003 #6

    jsteere

    jsteere

    jsteere

    Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2003
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Martinsville, IN
    Exhaust wrap

    Mark;

    My engine is a 3.8L supercharged V6 from a 90 Ford T-Bird, so many of the systems are different than yours. I can however address the exhaust wrap based on personal experience.

    My first exhaust manifold was made from mild steel and wrapped with the same material shown in your pictures. The wrap significantly reduces the temperature under the cowling...the manifolds glow bright red in operation. They also retain heat in the manifold which theoretically improves power. They smoke and stink they first time they are brought up to operating temperature.

    Unfortunately, mild steel can not withstand the elevated temperature, and will eventually fail. Mine failed in about 20 hours.

    If you need to use the wrap to control the temperature under the cowling, be sure to use 321 stainless steel for the manifolds. So far (~90 hrs,) they are holding up very well.
     
  7. Mar 3, 2003 #7

    mfelling

    mfelling

    mfelling

    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2003
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA
    Wrapped Exhaust

    I have no idea if its mild steel or what, I guess it must be since the pipes are black. They definately started glowing.

    What should I watch for in terms of a failure? What is the wrapping material if I need to replace them with stainless steel pipes? How is it done?

    Unfortunately, I don't know why the original engine builder (Walter Beecher), did it this way, if it was for temperature control under the cowling or what.

    Can you quantify (measured temps, etc?) the difference between using just regular (unwrapped) pipes - mild or stainless - and the same wrapped?
     
  8. Mar 5, 2003 #8

    jsteere

    jsteere

    jsteere

    Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2003
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Martinsville, IN
    Mark;

    At the point of failure, the mild steel becomes very scaley, brittle, and flakey, and eventually a hole is blown through the tubing.

    The wrapping material is JC Whitney part # 71ZX1304R, ~ $38. www.jcwhitney.com. Application instructions come with the material.

    I have not measured the temperature difference, but without the wrap, my spark plug wires get fried. You may not have this problem if you have adequate clearance between the header and wires.

    I may redesign my header to provide more clearance near the spark plug boots.

    John
     
  9. Mar 5, 2003 #9

    mfelling

    mfelling

    mfelling

    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2003
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA
    Pictures say a 1000 words

    John, You don't happen to have any detailed pictues available of your installation would you? I'd be interested to see it.

    Thanks!
    Mark
     
  10. Mar 5, 2003 #10

    jsteere

    jsteere

    jsteere

    Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2003
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Martinsville, IN
  11. Apr 4, 2008 #11

    Old Jupiter

    Old Jupiter

    Old Jupiter

    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2008
    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    2
    Mild steel headers should hold up better if they are given an internal ceramic coating, such as applied by a company called Jet Hot. The best heat-resistant headers are made of Inconel, if money is no object.

    Find one or more long -time owners of auto machine shops in your area, and ask him/them about any engine you think you might want to use in an airplane. From at least as far back as the early 1970s and continuing to the present, auto manufacturers have been trying to shave weight out of every part, including engine parts. In some ways this is good, of course, because the only way anyone would consider putting a cast-iron engine in his airplane is if it was made with modern thin-wall casting techniques. But the factories frequently went too far with this (and still do), and a bunch of engines are prone to cracking cylinder heads, and among the more notorious head-crackers are the large and small Ford V-6s . . . . TALK TO YOUR MACHINIST FIRST!!! In the case of some engines, there are aftermarket heads available which do not crack. Some are stock replacement heads, with stock-size valves and ports (what you want for an airplane), but some of these are quite heavy. Some of the aftermarket heads are race-only, with big valves and ports. Some are aluminum. TALK TO YOUR MACHINIST.

    Finally, don't bring your machinist a box of new heads and other parts you bought from some big mail order company. Machine shops have become very marginally profitable because of this, and as the old owners retire and die, nobody will replace them. Let your machinist make some money on the parts. You'll get a lot more good free advice out of him.

    FWIW, lest you think I am a Chevy guy who has it in for FoMoCo, I grew up in a Ford family and have build numerous fine Ford engines. The Ford V-6s are far from the only engines that crack heads. Spend a day at a wrecking yard and try to find a pair of uncracked Mopar 360 heads! When Chrysler Corp bought American Motors years ago, they should have discontinued their own engines and gone with the AMC Sixes and V-8s, which have plenty of metal in them and are the best underrated engines going. As for Chevy, I rebuilt a guy's boat engine a few years ago, a 350 with a Volvo outdrive. The Chevy heads from those years are so thin that reputable machine shops won't work on them because they can't take a cut on the deck surface (I got a set of World cast-iron heads; cheap, high-quality, and won't break . . . but they weigh a ton).

    No doubt some Ford V-6 owners will now get excited and tell me they have never had a problem. I am glad for you, and wish you continued uneventful flying.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2008
  12. Apr 12, 2008 #12

    Old Jupiter

    Old Jupiter

    Old Jupiter

    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2008
    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    2
    Talked to a machinist today about this. He believes there are aftermarket heads (that don't crack) for the 90-degree big Ford V-6 (and we know there are for the small 60-degree Capri V-6). It would be nice if we could find some aluminum heads that don't have big ports and valves for racing . . . .

    The big Ford V-6 head is odd in its manner of cracking, not internally, as with other crack-prone heads, but externally, lengthwise along the water-jacket. If you ever see a puddle of coolant under your engine, obtain a cooling system pressure tester, pump some air into the system, and see if you find seepage behind the exhaust manifolds.
     
  13. Oct 3, 2013 #13

    J3cubav8R

    J3cubav8R

    J3cubav8R

    Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2013
    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Portland Oregon Metroplex
    The Cyclone engine is Ford Motor Company's latest DOHC V6 family of gasoline engines.[SUP][1][/SUP] It will gradually replace the Mondeo family of V6 engines over the next several years. The first version, a 3.5 L Duratec V6, appeared in the 2007 Lincoln MKZ. Mazda badges its versions of the Cyclone MZI as it did with its versions of the Mondeo V6.
    Notable Cyclone features include a capacity for displacements ranging up to 4.0 L,[SUP][1][/SUP] DOHC 4-valve per cylinder heads, direct acting mechanical bucket (DAMB) camshaft tappets, variable cam timing (iVCT) on the intake camshafts, and twin-independent variable cam timing (Ti-VCT) on some later versions. Features such as Gasoline direct injection and turbocharging were considerations in the design phase and have been added to the engine as part of EcoBoost. The Duratec 35 is ULEV-II compliant and is capable of meeting the PZEV requirement.
    213 CID (3496 cc) and 227 CID (3721 cc) Cylinder bore 3.64 in (92.5 mm)
    3.76 in (95.5 mm) Piston stroke 3.41 in (86.7 mm) Cylinder block alloy Aluminum Cylinder head alloy Aluminum Valvetrain DOHC with Direct Acting Mechanical Buckets
     
  14. Oct 3, 2013 #14

    J3cubav8R

    J3cubav8R

    J3cubav8R

    Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2013
    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Portland Oregon Metroplex
    27.4" wide 26.73" tall 26.97" long
    It makes it's torque at 4250RPM
    That is enough. No need to wind it up any more than that.
    A vast number of these out there.
    3.7 Liter V6. I found an article that states the following about the engine.

    "In terms of power efficiency, the new engine makes 82.5 horsepower per liter of displacement, versus the old engine's 52.5, a 57-percent improvement-and it weighs only 41 pounds per liter of displacement versus the old engine's 101. Compare the old 4.0 V-6's 1.93 pounds per horsepower to just under 1.2 pounds for the new engine. Fuel efficiency is almost 5-percent better overall, from 0.521 pounds per horsepower per hour down to 0.498."

    I had to check the math twice because that equates to 41 pounds time 3.7 equaling to 151.7 pounds for the engine!!!!! " without accessories I bet.

    This needs to be double checked. All data cut a paste from another site.
    Another article says the 3.7 comes in right around 300 lbs.
    A possible inexpensive power plant. Used all over the world in many vehicles
     
  15. Oct 3, 2013 #15

    J3cubav8R

    J3cubav8R

    J3cubav8R

    Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2013
    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Portland Oregon Metroplex
    [TD="width: 22%, align: center"]FORD V6[/TD] [TD="width: 38%, align: center"]
    CURRENT Production 3.7L V6
    [/TD] [TD="width: 38%, align: center"]OLD 4.0L V6[/TD] [TD="width: 22%"]Type[/TD] [TD="width: 38%"]3.7L DOHC 24-valve V-6[/TD] [TD="width: 38%"]4.0-liter 60-degree V-6[/TD] [TD="width: 22%"]Manufacturing Location[/TD] [TD="width: 38%"]Lima Engine Plant, Ohio[/TD] [TD="width: 38%"]Cologne, Germany[/TD] [TD="width: 22%"]Configuration[/TD] [TD="width: 38%"]60-degree V-6, aluminum block and heads[/TD] [TD="width: 38%"]Iron block and aluminum head[/TD] [TD="width: 22%"]Intake Manifold[/TD] [TD="width: 38%"]Composite, slit plenum[/TD] [TD="width: 38%"]Composite shell-welded with internal runner pack[/TD] [TD="width: 22%"]Exhaust Manifold[/TD] [TD="width: 38%"]Cast iron[/TD] [TD="width: 38%"]Cast iron[/TD] [TD="width: 22%"]Crankshaft [/TD] [TD="width: 38%"]Forged steel[/TD] [TD="width: 38%"][/TD] [TD="width: 22%"]Redline [/TD] [TD="width: 38%"]6700 rpm[/TD] [TD="width: 38%"]6,100 rpm[/TD] [TD="width: 22%"]Throttle Body [/TD] [TD="width: 38%"]65mm, electronic[/TD] [TD="width: 38%"]65-mm single-bore electronic[/TD] [TD="width: 22%"]Valvetrain [/TD] [TD="width: 38%"]DAMB, 4 valves per cylinder, intake variable camshaft timing[/TD] [TD="width: 38%"]SOHC, 2 valves per cylinder[/TD] [TD="width: 22%"]Valve Diameter[/TD] [TD="width: 38%"]Intake: 37mm Exhaust: 31 mm[/TD] [TD="width: 38%"]Intake: 46.0 mm Exhaust: 39.0mm[/TD] [TD="width: 22%"]Pistons [/TD] [TD="width: 38%"]High temperature cast aluminum alloy with low-friction coated skirts, low-tension rings[/TD] [TD="width: 38%"]Cast aluminum[/TD] [TD="width: 22%"]Connecting Rods[/TD] [TD="width: 38%"]Cracked-powder metal[/TD] [TD="width: 38%"]Forged steel[/TD] [TD="width: 22%"]Ignition [/TD] [TD="width: 38%"]Pencil coil[/TD] [TD="width: 38%"]Distributorless with coil pack[/TD] [TD="width: 22%"]Bore x Stroke[/TD] [TD="width: 38%"]3.7 x 3.4 in/96.5 x 86.7 mm[/TD] [TD="width: 38%"]3.95 x 3.32/100.4 x 84.4 mm[/TD] [TD="width: 22%"]Displacement [/TD] [TD="width: 38%"]224 cu in/3.696 cc[/TD] [TD="width: 38%"]245 cu in / 4,009 cc[/TD] [TD="width: 22%"]Compression Ratio[/TD] [TD="width: 38%"]10:5:01[/TD] [TD="width: 38%"]9.7:1[/TD] [TD="width: 22%"]Horsepower [/TD] [TD="width: 38%"]302 @ 6250 rpm [/TD] [TD="width: 38%"]210 @ 5,250 rpm[/TD] [TD="width: 22%"]Horsepower per Liter[/TD] [TD="width: 38%"]71.5 (estimated)[/TD] [TD="width: 38%"]53[/TD] [TD="width: 22%"]Torque [/TD] [TD="width: 38%"]280 lb-ft @ 4500 rpm [/TD] [TD="width: 38%"]240 lb-ft @ 3,500 rpm[/TD] [TD="width: 22%"]Recommended Fuel[/TD] [TD="width: 38%"]87 Octane[/TD] [TD="width: 38%"]87 octane[/TD] [TD="width: 22%"]Fuel Injection[/TD] [TD="width: 38%"]Sequential multiport fuel injection[/TD] [TD="width: 38%"]Electronic returnless sequential[/TD] [TD="width: 22%"]Oil Capacity[/TD] [TD="width: 38%"]5.5 quarts, with filter[/TD] [TD="width: 38%"]5 quarts with filter[/TD]
     
  16. Oct 3, 2013 #16

    J3cubav8R

    J3cubav8R

    J3cubav8R

    Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2013
    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Portland Oregon Metroplex
    Aftermarket power boosting, Super chargers and turbos this could easily normalize. This V6 that powers the Ford Mustangs are some thing to watch.
     
  17. Feb 28, 2017 #17

    Derswede

    Derswede

    Derswede

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2016
    Messages:
    839
    Likes Received:
    256
    Location:
    Central North Carolina

Share This Page



arrow_white