Flying Wing to compete with the Jodel D9

Discussion in 'Aircraft Design / Aerodynamics / New Technology' started by erkki67, Feb 7, 2014.

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  1. Feb 7, 2014 #1

    erkki67

    erkki67

    erkki67

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    Hello there

    A new Idea came up into my mind.

    The 30ies up to the 60ies was the time for big experiments in therm of aerodynamics and home building.

    The designs which could my interest are the following planes:

    - the Jodel D9 for the homebuilder and safe flying skills
    - BICh-20 a russian flying Wing flying on very modest hp
    - Payen AP-10 also a low hp airplane small with good Vs
    - Fauvel AV-60 a less successfull D9 competitor ( only 1 built)

    Just too sad that there has never been made a flying wing that could meet the following:
    - modern retrodesign
    - STOL
    - small, less then 5,5m in span
    - wooden built, with some use of foams but no composites
    - taildragger like the Jodel D11UL or similar gear, later retractable gear like Loehle 5151
    - sit in fuselage or sit on top fuselage
    - folding or detachable wingtips
    - being able to store in a 20' freight container
    - single, later 2 and more seater
    - open or enclosed cockpit
    - paramotor engined

    The following Parameters should be respected in order

    - safe and easy to fly
    - tough structure and gear for student and mountain flying
    - ultralight if possible
    - cheap to operate
    - cheap to build
    - easy to store
    - STOL
    - taildragger
    - foldable
    - high range as far as possible on 5Gal in the US and 20l in EU or more were possible.
    - high speed

    Is it too much of dreaming?
    :gig:
    Erkki
     
  2. Feb 7, 2014 #2

    bmcj

    bmcj

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    I wonder if you could do a wooden version of Scott Winton's Facet Opal?

    1_15_08_09_2_20_46.jpg

    BTW... Why would you need folding wings? Just turn the whole plane sideways for ground transport or hangar storage.
     
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  3. Feb 8, 2014 #3

    Alps

    Alps

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    What do you mean by high-speed ?
    Paramotor engined --> Wampyr-pelican ?
     
  4. Feb 8, 2014 #4

    planecrazzzy

    planecrazzzy

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    Fangtastic
     
  5. Feb 9, 2014 #5

    Hugh Lorimer

    Hugh Lorimer

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  6. Feb 9, 2014 #6

    erkki67

    erkki67

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    The facet Opal is a record braking little plane, outstanding performances, but not ideal for what I would like to use it.

    the Jodel D9 has some perfect habits I would like to find in tractor powered flying wing too.

    the landing gear must able to absorb not so perfect acres for landings.

    so, a pusher is not ideal.

    Hugh, I like your wing layout, but the fuselage should have the engine up in front and a taildragger gear similar to the D11UL, with a lot of suspension.

    a plane I really like is the Payen AP-10 or the Arup somehow, but still preferring the Payen.

    the Payen flew also on low horse power, which like, so now a days para motor engines could be used, so the airframe has to be light as possible.

    i believe in; less is more!

    erkki ;-)
     
  7. Feb 9, 2014 #7

    cluttonfred

    cluttonfred

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    Almost exactly equivalent to a Jodel D.9 Bébé and with the same French accent was the Fauvel AV.60 Leprechaun (and related AV.61), see Charles Fauvel and his Flying Wings.

    av60.jpg av60_1.jpg
     
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  8. Feb 9, 2014 #8

    erkki67

    erkki67

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    The AV-60 is indeed an interesting little bird, but do you know from we're to get construction drawings?

    bst rgds

    erkki
     
  9. Feb 9, 2014 #9

    autoreply

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  10. Feb 9, 2014 #10

    Aircar

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    "moving prop up etc' --the problems created by moving the thrust line above the wing exceed any benefit from allowing nose up rotation and could even make trimming the aircraft impossible in the case of a tailless type -- the negative flap effect ( of back stick) will increase the actual take off speed which will of course reduce the thrust itself and slightly reduce the adverse thrust moment but not enough to be practical . A propellor half shrouded on the top side only will supply some nose up trim both by pressure field and inflow induced --the GM Lean Machine as once displayed at EPCOT (orlando) used this concept -the Terrafugia (Mk 1) suffered from the reverse and could barely take off even at 90 knots.

    The question has to be asked WHY specify a 'flying wing to compete' with a Jodel D 9 -- this presupposes some solution by being tailless or just arbitrary or capricious 'designing' . What is it about a D9 that is thought to be unsatisfactory? Is it the fuselage length perhaps? --why not then design a hinging or removeable rear fuselage (presumably for trailering or hangarage or something else ) --Quickie did this. Studying the shortcomings (bad pun...) of previous tailless aircraft might suggest a better way to retain the good features of a Jodel type but not repeat the mistakes on earlier untailed ones. The Stuttgart Uni FS 26 and Braunschweig SB 13 were good attempts to delete a tail end and some of the X planes apart from the less extensively tested Fauvel and Marske designs --unpopularity AFTER being available for a considerable time implies something UNsatisfactory about the untailed variety.
     
  11. Feb 10, 2014 #11

    cluttonfred

    cluttonfred

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    No, sorry, I have no more info other than what was in the link.
     
  12. Jul 11, 2014 #12

    sigrana

    sigrana

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    Scott was a good friend and we lost him. Besides any other consideration, the craft was a total handful to fly and worse to land. I would warmly advise you NOT to replicate it.


     
  13. Jul 11, 2014 #13

    Topaz

    Topaz

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    PIREPs of the Opal are notoriously hard to come by. Do you have any more information about this?
     
  14. Jul 11, 2014 #14

    TFF

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    Just enlarge a Bill Evans' Simitar model. For STOL flying wing you will need tons of horsepower to pretty much launch it.
     

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