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Flying wing as cheap and simple option for basic fun flying.

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Hot Wings

Grumpy Cynic
HBA Supporter
Log Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2009
Messages
7,196
Location
Rocky Mountains
Whether this board can become a team, agree a spec, to progress this will depend on how committed people are, after 4 years.
It was never my intent when I started this thread that it would result in a design by consensus. History here has almost proven that is impossible.
My purpose for starting this thread has been fulfilled - that being a place to present ideas and discuss their various merits and drawbacks of a small flying wing for flying inexpensively.

It is up to one, or several, motivated individuals to create a flying example. We have 2 well known benchmarks. Both the Opal and the Debryer Pelican have flown. One designer is no longer alive and the other has no interest in developing plans. Add in the UFO and we have a trio of starting points to develop.

I know where I'm headed, depending on shop space. As much as I'd like to start on the AV-361 MK II I just don't have the space. A 'mericun version of a PelicUn might be possible for me. :popcorn:

I prefer composite building................
 

WINGITIS

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Joined
Jun 24, 2020
Messages
300
Location
Wellington, New Zealand
Prior to the LSA category being a thing, producing a new design was so expensive that just about everything was conservative.
Yes indeed and that has forced a change worldwide which is good...

BUT the digital skyways that are being planned/legislated for the likes of Blackfly, Uber(Currently testing in New Zealand) oand others, may mean theres a finite window before its all automated.....

I have read that the UK, Europe, USA and many other contries are collaborating on the digital skyways project....!?
 

WINGITIS

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2020
Messages
300
Location
Wellington, New Zealand
It was never my intent when I started this thread that it would result in a design by consensus. History here has almost proven that is impossible.
My purpose for starting this thread has been fulfilled - that being a place to present ideas and discuss their various merits and drawbacks of a small flying wing for flying inexpensively.

It is up to one, or several, motivated individuals to create a flying example. We have 2 well known benchmarks. Both the Opal and the Debryer Pelican have flown. One designer is no longer alive and the other has no interest in developing plans. Add in the UFO and we have a trio of starting points to develop.

I know where I'm headed, depending on shop space. As much as I'd like to start on the AV-361 MK II I just don't have the space. A 'mericun version of a PelicUn might be possible for me. :popcorn:

I prefer composite building................
AGREED, and having this thread is most useful.

When I saw that simple LEGS OUT THE SIDES 3D mockup on this thread it reminded me of the Marske Monarch AIRFRAME that had come before..so I posted the PIC.

If a thread with a good bunch of keen men cannot get a design together then maybe no one will, the days of one man creations is coming to an end, we are all getting older and get less done day by day, well that is me anyway!!!!!

So I thought it a possibility we could have a go at a SIMPLE one as well as work on our other creations in the background.

I am happy to help with calculations and airfoil input where it might be needed.

:pilot:
FWACAS could be the group name, Flying Wings As Cheap And Simple...

?????????????????
 

WINGITIS

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2020
Messages
300
Location
Wellington, New Zealand
AGREED, and having this thread is most useful.

When I saw that simple LEGS OUT THE SIDES 3D mockup on this thread it reminded me of the Marske Monarch AIRFRAME that had come before..so I posted the PIC.

If a thread with a good bunch of keen men cannot get a design together then maybe no one will, the days of one man creations is coming to an end, we are all getting older and get less done day by day, well that is me anyway!!!!!

So I thought it a possibility we could have a go at a SIMPLE one as well as work on our other creations in the background.

I am happy to help with calculations and airfoil input where it might be needed.

:pilot:
FWACAS could be the group name, Flying Wings As Cheap And Simple...

?????????????????
FYI

Raymers Free Spreadsheets are here:

 

Hot Wings

Grumpy Cynic
HBA Supporter
Log Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2009
Messages
7,196
Location
Rocky Mountains
If a thread with a good bunch of keen men cannot get a design together then maybe no one will, the days of one man creations is coming to an end, << >>
we are all getting older and get less done day by day, well that is me anyway!!!!!
I resemble the second part. ;)
<< >>
As for the first - nothing has really changed over the years. Any good/efficient project has a single motivated and competent man at the top. In simpler times they may have also done the bulk of the work. Today that single man has to rely on others, often called specialists. We had a member here (Orion) that used the word "configurator" to describe this type of leader.

I've been a team member/leader. Not all of those experiences were pleasant. If I can help with some ideas/advice here and there I'm happy to do so. Being a member of a more formal team project just feels too much like 'work'. I also have too many distractions in my life now to be a reliable team member. I'm not good at motivating people and the term Herding Cats seems approperate for a team made up of HBA members.

So that leaves me being the old school "motivated and competent man at the top" for my project. The competent part is yet to be proven.........
 

henryk

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Joined
Mar 8, 2010
Messages
5,371
Location
krakow,poland
Prior to the LSA category being a thing, producing a new design was so expensive that just about everything was conservative.

=light & lighter ...
 

Sockmonkey

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Joined
Apr 24, 2014
Messages
1,915
Location
Flint, Mi, USA
I've been a team member/leader. Not all of those experiences were pleasant. If I can help with some ideas/advice here and there I'm happy to do so. Being a member of a more formal team project just feels too much like 'work'. I also have too many distractions in my life now to be a reliable team member. I'm not good at motivating people and the term Herding Cats seems approperate for a team made up of HBA members.
They say that you need to discuss the goal for at least ten minutes at the start and forbid anyone from offering solutions during that time so people don't get attached to a solution offered that may not turn out to be appropriate.
 

Vigilant1

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Jan 24, 2011
Messages
5,048
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US
They say that you need to discuss the goal for at least ten minutes at the start and forbid anyone from offering solutions during that time so people don't get attached to a solution offered that may not turn out to be appropriate.
So how do we convert that into online, virtual meetings/back-and-forth here on HBA? Maybe 10 days (weeks?) of discussing the goal/problem before anyone is allowed to propose a solution? Seems unlikely. :)
More like: Intermingle analysis of the problem with conjectured solutions. If any solution appears to gain momentum, sharpshoot it until it is discarded. Lather, rinse, repeat. :)
 
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Bille Floyd

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Joined
Sep 26, 2019
Messages
279
They say that you need to discuss the goal for at least ten minutes at the start and forbid anyone from offering solutions during that time so people don't get attached to a solution offered that may not turn out to be appropriate.
It's called functional fixedness : a cognitive bias in problem solving , once
a solution has bin presented ; and now you can't think of any other
solutions. And YES , it is Real ; was much discussed, in psychology class . I could go into much detail, about this ; it starts
at a some-what , early age.

A good read, on the subject :

Bille
 
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Hot Wings

Grumpy Cynic
HBA Supporter
Log Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2009
Messages
7,196
Location
Rocky Mountains
Is there a test we can take for FF? If not then we need to invent one and name the scale the MacGyver index. Original version not the lame remake. :oops:
 

Bille Floyd

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Joined
Sep 26, 2019
Messages
279
Is there a test we can take for FF? If not then we need to invent one and name the scale the MacGyver index. Original version not the lame remake. :oops:
The sport of Kite boarding , has bin around for near 20 years ; notice
in this shot below, how ---from a distance , most of them look kinda the
same ? I see at least 5 different brands here !!

I would bet, that if someone here on homebuilders... were to
build a kite for kite boarding ; it would look more like a flying wing ?


8908755.jpg
 
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WINGITIS

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Joined
Jun 24, 2020
Messages
300
Location
Wellington, New Zealand
I resemble the second part. ;)
<< >>
As for the first - nothing has really changed over the years. Any good/efficient project has a single motivated and competent man at the top. In simpler times they may have also done the bulk of the work. Today that single man has to rely on others, often called specialists. We had a member here (Orion) that used the word "configurator" to describe this type of leader.

I've been a team member/leader. Not all of those experiences were pleasant. If I can help with some ideas/advice here and there I'm happy to do so. Being a member of a more formal team project just feels too much like 'work'. I also have too many distractions in my life now to be a reliable team member. I'm not good at motivating people and the term Herding Cats seems approperate for a team made up of HBA members.

So that leaves me being the old school "motivated and competent man at the top" for my project. The competent part is yet to be proven.........
YES INDEED...HERDING CATS..................

:D
 

WINGITIS

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2020
Messages
300
Location
Wellington, New Zealand
The sport of Kite boarding , has bin around for near 20 years ; notice
in this shot below, how ---from a distance , most of them look kinda the
same ? I see at least 5 different brands here !!

I would bet, that if someone here on homebuilders... were to
build a kite for kite boarding ; it would look more like a flying wing ?


View attachment 99854
At least these chaps have sorted out what reflex is about!

They probably have more excitement than a Kite Surfer....but of course their are no CHICKS watching or to watch....!

 
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