Flying Fleas are more than just 2 axis. No problems with crosswinds!

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nestofdragons

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Let me explain. Most people know Flying Fleas as very bizarre airplanes that have a funny way of being steered. True! But ...that design was made to get Henri Mignet, who considered himself as a bad pilot in normal airplanes, airborne in a safe way. I will not tell here more about that , you can read it all here: flying flea - Nest of Dragons

I like to focus here on the fact that many fear the Flying Flea as they see it only as a 2 axis. True and ...not true. If you build a Flying Flea like mentioned on the plans, it is pure two axis. But ...adding a split Cousandy flap on the rear wing is super easy to do and ...it gives you full control against crosswinds during landings. Next picture is a split Cousandy flap on the rear wing of a construction by a friend, Hans Engels.
mon062.jpg
You see in the picture that it is only a piano hinge. The flap goes only upwards. You control those separate parts with two levers like in this HM14/360 cockpit by Tim Bruton (USA). You can see similar levers at the left side of the cockpit. Here they have another function, but ...they are being controlled in the same way.
IMG_0636.jpg

Here you see two Flying Fleas with their split Cousandy flap. First one is a Croses, second one a HM293.
e026.jpge049.jpg
So ...don't fear those tiny Flying Fleas. They are easy to steer, easy to make, easy to store thanks to the folding wings.
Here (Available models - Nest of Dragons)you see the most known Flying Flea models. By the way ..did you know that ALL Flying Flea plans by the Mignet family are not FOR FREE online. The last family member wanted to share the Mignet work with the world. I just love them for their work in aviation for the man of the street.
JimBruton.jpgPont2005_074.jpge002.jpge100.jpg

I hope i have helped to better understand this remarkable airplane.

Keep that brain spawning wings,

Koen (pronounced as racoon without ra)
 

nestofdragons

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nestofdragons

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By the way ...there is also something like the POUCHEL. I guess it must be at this moment the most basic Flying Flea there is.
AA04.jpgAA05.jpgAA06.jpg

This edition was the first edition. Now it no longer is being constructed out of ladders, but out of rectangular tubes and so.
Link below guides towards a overview of the current Pouchel variants.
More info at www.pouchel.com Le site de l'APEV
 

nestofdragons

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I made a new video called Flying Flea lesson 8. It is about crosswind landings AND the agility of a Flying Flea. Be sure to watch till the end. At the end you see another advantage of the Flying Flea.
The other lessons are to be seen on my channel (called Nestofdragons) or my website (section weird airplanes).

Enjoy!
 
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nestofdragons

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I have got gooooood news. Soon i will be able to place the English plans of the HM293 and the HM360/380 AS WELL as all old publications of the magazine Pou Review and Pou Renew. And it will all be FOR FREE! Yihaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

I guess that will help the USA a lot to create some niiiice Flying Fleas.

Keep that brain spawning wings,
Koen
 

cluttonfred

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That's great news, every little but helps, but I honestly don't think language is the main barrier to popularity of Mignet types in the USA. Fred Byron's Australian HM-293 plans and the English translation of Rodolphe Grunberg's HM-293 plans by Paul Pontois have been around for years, and I think Chris Falconar's plans are bilingual. It's too bad, but think it's just resistance to an unusual design that most people have never seen in the flesh.
 

rbrochey

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That's great news, every little but helps, but I honestly don't think language is the main barrier to popularity of Mignet types in the USA. Fred Byron's Australian HM-293 plans and the English translation of Rodolphe Grunberg's HM-293 plans by Paul Pontois have been around for years, and I think Chris Falconar's plans are bilingual. It's too bad, but think it's just resistance to an unusual design that most people have never seen in the flesh.
I think you're right! That said I just ordered Chris Falconars ultralight flea plans to build alongside the Falconar F10 that is beginning to take over my bench! I've been happy with everything I bought from him so far and he answers my questions usually the same day... so can't complain! :)
 

nestofdragons

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I think you're right! That said I just ordered Chris Falconars ultralight flea plans to build alongside the Falconar F10 that is beginning to take over my bench! I've been happy with everything I bought from him so far and he answers my questions usually the same day... so can't complain! :)
I am happy for you. In my eyes, he is no good. Stealing plans from others without permission, hmmm, not my type of guy. If he can help you to create a Flying Flea, i am glad. Really. If he want to really help those who want to set their first steps in aviation, he might change my point of view about him. But ...boy ...he has a lot of catching up to do.
 

cluttonfred

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I am happy for you. In my eyes, he is no good. Stealing plans from others without permission, hmmm, not my type of guy. If he can help you to create a Flying Flea, i am glad. Really. If he want to really help those who want to set their first steps in aviation, he might change my point of view about him. But ...boy ...he has a lot of catching up to do.
I am not aware that Chris Falconar is "stealing plans from others." Could you elaborate?
 

Victor Bravo

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Question re: original crosswind subject.

Assuming that the builder understands that he/she is going outside of the original Mignet formula, and going outside of Cousandy's and Croses' work as well...

what is the big-picture disadvantage of putting traditional ailerons on the rear wing of a Flea? What problems do ailerons cause that the other devices do not have?
 

rbrochey

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@rbrochey: ONE QUESTION: Are those ultralight plans by any chance the HM16 or HM160 plans???
His ultralight plans are the F 293 E and 295 E...

293E_2v.jpg

I like Chris, and really his plans are quite terrific in my opinion...I plan on buying all my HIPEC covering material from him and received my first can of HIPEC sealer yesterday for sealing the wood being covered in the rudder and elevator I have completed... really everyone has different experiences but in my opinion it's up to me to understand the plane I'm building, the plans are the outline.. I have to have the right skills to understand them! But that's just me!
 

nestofdragons

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I had several talks with Pierre Mignet, the son of Henri Mignet. We talked about the possible plans out there. And he said something like "It is sad what happened in the USA. Falconar started copying the HM293 and HM360/380 plans. Ok, he added a trigear to it or spoilers, but ...95% of that airplane was not changed. The guy never got any permission from my father. He was upset with the fact somebody used HIS designs, but ...he isn't the kind of man to get to court for somebody like that. He liked his life more at ease than being stressed due to a court case (right word??)." It is not a quote, but it was something like that. Ever since that day, i heard that ...i disliked Falconar. I even started wondering ...did he ever get in contact with the Fauvel family?? Except for that one time when he ordered those glider plans. Same question about the Piel plans.

In those days all happened by letter. Can mister Falconar show ANY written permission by the Mignet, Piel or Fauvel family to use their plans without ANY distribution of the earned money towards these families?? Mignet never saw a single dime for what Falconar sold.

Sorry, getting angry again. I need to stop here.

To rbrochey: if you bought HM293 or HM360/380 plans, wait with construction till my set of plans arrived on the site. They are translated by Paul Pontois, a personal friend of Pierre Mignet. Paul always sent ALL the earned money towards the Mignet family. Now that guy i do trust. These plans which will arrive on my website will be in better quality than the Falconar plans, which are notorious for being copies of copies of copies. Sometimes hard to read. With very rough French-English translations. Paul is canadian and his French is muuuuuch better than mine. I met him a few times during Flying Flea meetings. His English is better than mine too.

To rbrochey: i just saw your comment. I am happy for you. If he tried to sell HM16 or HM160 plans, it was his ticket to jail. Those plans are lethal. Read my big bad wolf page to better understand. I have only once seen a 293E. It was made for a friend of me and built by a guy who truly was a master in woodwork for aviation. Never saw any other HM293E. By the way ...it didn't look like on the picture of his website. It was a total open air design. Very very basic.

Last thing i want to say about his set of plans: how many Flying Fleas were FULLY constructed using his plans? I quote Paul: "People who want to construct a HM290/293 have the choose between the plans sold by Falconair, which are hard to understand and costy, and the updated plans of Rodolphe Grunberg, the only ones being approved by Pierre Mignet. 150 to 200 flying models proof the quality of the Grunberg plans (which don't cost a lot). And there are not much models known being build by the Falconair plans." (text being translated from French).
 
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cluttonfred

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Question re: original crosswind subject.

Assuming that the builder understands that he/she is going outside of the original Mignet formula, and going outside of Cousandy's and Croses' work as well...

what is the big-picture disadvantage of putting traditional ailerons on the rear wing of a Flea? What problems do ailerons cause that the other devices do not have?
Ailerons require coordination and when the controls are crossed can induce a spin, but the biggest advantage of the Mignet system, in my opinion, is simplicity. You build only three flying surfaces, four if the rudder has a fin, only two them move. You have only one aerodynamic flight control (stick or yoke, though rudder pedals and pitch-only stick are another possibility). The pitch can also serve as an approach control device (parachutal descent) with no other mechanisms. For me, that's the real attraction of the Mignet type and once you start adding too much to it then you may as well build something else. My preference for the crosswind issue would be tricycle gear, just like an Ercoupe, though many Flea pilots seem to manage just fine with taildraggers.
 
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nestofdragons

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"Question re: original crosswind subject.
Assuming that the builder understands that he/she is going outside of the original Mignet formula, and going outside of Cousandy's and Croses' work as well...
what is the big-picture disadvantage of putting traditional ailerons on the rear wing of a Flea? What problems do ailerons cause that the other devices do not have?"

The turning of a Flying Flea is something that has a multitude of reasons. The shorter rear wing, the blocking out by the fuselage, the forces of the rudder, ... There was a article in Pou Renew which explained it all. Soon those article are coming back online. You will be notified when they will appear.

Using a lift reducing device (which is actually the function of a spoiler, which is used in the Falconar plans) on the front wing is ...not such a good idea. In the past, the first generation of flying flea had the problem that they dived in. Reason, front wing could not keep up the nose. (If you want to read all the other teething problems, go see bla bla bla (i keep repeating myself :) )) Luckily that problem was solved in the later plans. Now this spoiler in the front wing starts to decrease the possible lift of the front wing. The possible counter moment to prevent the rear wing from creating the moment to make the airplane dive in. Eh ...sounds like this idea is not going in the right direction.
BUT MOST IMPORTANT: if you use the Cousandy flap, you can use it for a second purpose as well. It can create a higher sink rate. So ...it can help during a landing. If i may quote Hans Engels, a befriended Flying Flea builder: "with a Cousandy flap, a Flying Flea does not only turn on a dime, it can also land on a dime" ;)
 
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cluttonfred

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Thanks, Koen, for the clarifications. I, too, was lucky enough to have some long talks by phone with Pierre Mignet before he died, but Falconar never came up. I visited Emilien Croses a couple of times, even saw the big Para-Cargo in the hangar, as my wife is from Lyon, not far from Macon. If Falconar does not have permission from the original designers and pays them nothing, then I am very disappointed to hear that.
 

rbrochey

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All I know for sure is that every time I look at a flea (any variant) I feel good inside. I am thank for for Mr Mignet for designing it in the first place! That said I would be quite happy to pay an additional plans fee to the Mignet family ( 50% say of my plans cost ) I'm just happy to have the opportunity to include it in my building plans! I bought the rudder and stabilizer spruce and hardware from Mr Falconar and it is beautiful spruce (and I know spruce) ... it's all good! But especially building a plane!
 
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