# Flaglor Scooter plans

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#### Tiger Tim

##### Well-Known Member
Electrify Flaglor with new materials !
Sooo….. design a new airplane, then?

#### David L. Downey

##### Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
David L. Downey did you ever get the rights to the Flaglor Scooter and are selling printed plans?
Thank you
I did buy the whole thing. However, I have not done anything since then. I don't even know what a set of prints would be worth? Its a bit of a hassle to get them printed but quite doable?

##### Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
I did buy the whole thing. However, I have not done anything since then. I don't even know what a set of prints would be worth? Its a bit of a hassle to get them printed but quite doable?
I don't know, but you may have several takers here on this forum, myself included. You could sell a few here informally, and figure out a longer-term game plan later.

#### Sraight'nlevel

##### Well-Known Member
Sooo….. design a new airplane, then?
It seems very efficient concept...you may be able to leave most of the structure but some new material may give 30-50% weight savings....wing maybe?

#### cluttonfred

##### Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
I am still interested in a scanned copy of those Flaglor Scooter plans for educational value not really to build. As I have said before, the layout would lend itself well to a riveted-tube-and-gusset design with wood or aluminum (conventional or tubular spar) wings with the original cable bracing or a pair of V-struts, all fabric covered, with optional engine mounts of varying lengths to accommodated different engine weights. It's easy to image a fat Scooter as a side-by-side two-seater as well.

#### Martti Mattila

##### Well-Known Member
Those drauhtsmen that can draw these gutaways in 3/4 wiews are rare breed. Respect.

#### David L. Downey

##### Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
My interest in building flagged immediately upon close examination of the plans. Much like many of the early scratch build only homebuilt designs, to my eye, it is built like a tank. Longerons, spars, and just the overall airframe are heavy gauge members. I am a designer, not an engineer, and while I believe that I am very good at designing elegant components (low parts count, multifunction assemblies) I understand well the need for engineering to minimize structural weight. The task was above my pay grade so the idea went dormant.
If it is really wanted I can print the cleaned up drawings and mail them but just the cost of printing will likely be in excess of $75 not counting shipping or the effort to do so. #### billyvray ##### Well-Known Member My interest in building flagged immediately upon close examination of the plans. Much like many of the early scratch build only homebuilt designs, to my eye, it is built like a tank. Longerons, spars, and just the overall airframe are heavy gauge members. I am a designer, not an engineer, and while I believe that I am very good at designing elegant components (low parts count, multifunction assemblies) I understand well the need for engineering to minimize structural weight. The task was above my pay grade so the idea went dormant. If it is really wanted I can print the cleaned up drawings and mail them but just the cost of printing will likely be in excess of$75 not counting shipping or the effort to do so.
How about a reduced price pdf package for study? Can be printed as needed.

#### Flivverflyer

##### Active Member
"My interest in building flagged immediately upon close examination of the plans. Much like many of the early scratch build only homebuilt designs, to my eye, it is built like a tank. Longerons, spars, and just the overall airframe are heavy gauge members."

Ah, yes. My conclusion exactly. When I was a mere sprog I used to fantasize about building an all wood VW-powered homebuilt (this was around the time the Volksplane made its appearance in Popular Mechanics). My interest piqued the moment I spotted the little Flaglor Scooter in a magazine. "That's IT!!" I said. When the day came (college years now, freshly budding Private Pilot), I found a used Flaglor for sale in Lubbock, TX, and called about it on the phone, but unfortunately I just missed it. Probably just as well, for when I actually had a chance to examine the bare structure in photos I was overwhelmed at the level of detail and over-engineering in the design. WAY too much timber in this one! The comment above about choosing a Minimax or Evans VP-1 over this design is well advised, IMO.

I now own and fly a Flying Enterprises Sky Raider (Rotax 503), and it is much the same concept and size, but with a much leaner and lighter chromoly airframe. Plus the wings fold, so I can keep it in a half-hangar and save on rent. With an empty weight of 340lbs, I am delighted with its performance and its robust frame. A much superior design to the Flaglor Scooter, if you ask me.

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#### BJC

##### Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
to my eye, it is built like a tank. Longerons, spars, and just the overall airframe are heavy gauge members.

I was overwhelmed at the level of detail and over-engineering in the design. WAY too much timber in this one!
Just curious: are those judgements after calculating loads, stresses, and safety factors, or just TLAR judgements?

BJC

#### cluttonfred

##### Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Pesonally, I don’t see anything obviously over-engineered in those pics. The Wikipedia specs say 390 lb empty and 650 gross which is very competitive with other classic single-seat VW-powered homebuilts. It is actually lighter than a TEAM V-Max (400/700) or an Evans VP-1 (440/750) though heavier than a Jodel D.9 Bébé (357/600) or a Druine Turbulent (349/620). Keep in mind, of course, that all those numbers are to be taken with a grain of salt and homebuilts are rarely as light at the original prototype.

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#### David L. Downey

##### Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Just curious: are those judgements after calculating loads, stresses, and safety factors, or just TLAR judgements?

BJC
As I stated clearly, I am not qualified to make engineering judgements. But comparing the sections of the members, spacing of those members and the like reveals a very stout structure when those details are compared with many other designs that also have been engineered. I think a lot of especially the early homebuilts we're designed in a time of plentiful wood and engines and the need to optimize might not have had the importance that today expects.

##### Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
If it is really wanted I can print the cleaned up drawings and mail them but just the cost of printing will likely be in excess of $75 not counting shipping or the effort to do so. I think that's reasonable. #### Tiger Tim ##### Well-Known Member Wasn’t there a guy on here who couldn’t get his Scooter to leave the ground? Be cool if Flaglor had put the engine on the nose like a wooden Stewart Headwind… #### TFF ##### Well-Known Member I think a lot of people think they can squeeze a Pt103 plane out of something like it. Lots of wooden planes are complicated; none are simple. At best they are square. It is designed for its time. It’s definitely an attempt to make a powered full bodied Primary Glider into an everyday airplane. It’s not a wind down the runway at 3 mph plane like we think of Pt 103. Conventional engine placement would probably help its concept, like a high wing Taylor Monoplane. #### peter dunn ##### New Member My interest in building flagged immediately upon close examination of the plans. Much like many of the early scratch build only homebuilt designs, to my eye, it is built like a tank. Longerons, spars, and just the overall airframe are heavy gauge members. I am a designer, not an engineer, and while I believe that I am very good at designing elegant components (low parts count, multifunction assemblies) I understand well the need for engineering to minimize structural weight. The task was above my pay grade so the idea went dormant. If it is really wanted I can print the cleaned up drawings and mail them but just the cost of printing will likely be in excess of$75 not counting shipping or the effort to do so.
David, I noted my interest in a copy of the drawings in this thread in 2020 and would still very much like to obtain a copy. I am in Sydney, Australia. The suggested cost of printing the drawings is more than reasonable and I would be happy to pay all shipping and your full handling costs. I first saw the flaglor scooter in an aviation article/review about 35 years ago and still have a great interest in the plane.

#### crusty old aviator

##### Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Back in the late 80s, I belonged to an EAA chapter in Ontario, Canada. They had built a Scooter as a chapter project and many members had flown her, but her novelty soon wore thin and a friend of mine bought her. He was too big to fit in the cockpit so he put her up for sale. I used to take her up, just to keep her wee VW engine in good shape. Flying her was a bit of an odd experience, I got the impression I was flying a cave, with the engine ahead and above, and the wings overhead. The visibility wasn’t great, and the cockpit wasn’t...comfortable. With those open sides of the cockpit, you sure knew if you were crabbing, without even looking at the ball.

#### Sraight'nlevel

##### Well-Known Member
Back in the late 80s, I belonged to an EAA chapter in Ontario, Canada. They had built a Scooter as a chapter project and many members had flown her, but her novelty soon wore thin and a friend of mine bought her. He was too big to fit in the cockpit so he put her up for sale. I used to take her up, just to keep her wee VW engine in good shape. Flying her was a bit of an odd experience, I got the impression I was flying a cave, with the engine ahead and above, and the wings overhead. The visibility wasn’t great, and the cockpit wasn’t...comfortable. With those open sides of the cockpit, you sure knew if you were crabbing, without even looking at the ball.
Maybe there is a chance to improve the concept then ?

#### crusty old aviator

##### Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
This reminds me a bit of the Pietenpol Air Camper: many builders wanted to improve the design, or update it, which is fine. As homebuilders, we’re hardwired to do just that, but when you make improvements and updates, at some point the design is no longer Flaglor’s, nor even a Scooter.
Yes, there are many chances to make improvements, so go and use the Scooter as the basis for your design, without the same desperation to get into the air on a diminutive budget that Flaglor possessed. Build her, fly her, and share with us all your lessons learned, just as Mr. Flaglor did it.

#### buzzypeterson

##### Well-Known Member
I did buy the whole thing. However, I have not done anything since then. I don't even know what a set of prints would be worth? Its a bit of a hassle to get them printed but quite doable?
Sounds like me and one other guy are the only guys in the room to have flown a scooter. There are pics on here of the one I resorted. Luckily all that extra wood saved my life. She ended up in a pile of splinters when density altitude taught me a lesson. She was very heavy and pretty scary actually. I put about 5 hours on her. The rudder was amazing. Actually got me out of an incipient spin. Which would have meant sure death. But she was too heavy. The horizontal stab being a flat fronted plank meant she didn’t really keep her nose down in a glide. The horizontal tail isn’t big enough in my opinion. (No wind from the prop helping it).

But it did fly!